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TOPIC: Sanctions, hardship payments and availability for work questions

Sanctions, hardship payments and availability for work questions 17 Apr 2018 13:03 #7078

  • osris
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Hi, I’m new here.

Can anyone answer these questions?

1) Is all your JSA stopped when you are sanctioned, or is only a percentage of it stopped?
2) If after being sanctioned you go on hardship payments, do you still have to be available for work?
3) And if you do still have to be available for work, can you be further sanctioned while on hardship payments?

I’ve just started getting JSA and have not been sanctioned, but the above questions have occurred to me.

Sanctions, hardship payments and availability for work questions 18 Apr 2018 02:19 #7099

osris wrote:
Hi, I’m new here.

Can anyone answer these questions?

1) Is all your JSA stopped when you are sanctioned, or is only a percentage of it stopped?
2) If after being sanctioned you go on hardship payments, do you still have to be available for work?
3) And if you do still have to be available for work, can you be further sanctioned while on hardship payments?

I’ve just started getting JSA and have not been sanctioned, but the above questions have occurred to me.

Hello and welcome to the Forum Osris. Apologies for not responding sooner.

1] Usually when your coach raises a sanction doubt all your Allowance is stopped. If you are on Housing Benefit that stops too. you will need to get onto your Council to get that reinstated.

2] You will have to apply for hardship payments. Easier said than done, a lot of prying to go through. You will have to carry on with all the activities that you agreed to in your Jobseekers Agreement and you must still be available for work.

3] You will be further sanctioned if a further doubt is raised about non-compliance with your Jobseekers Agreement or availability for work.

Welcome to the dark side of 21st century England.

Sanctions, hardship payments and availability for work questions 18 Apr 2018 16:25 #7111

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Thanks. It does paint a grim picture.

If you are sanctioned while on hardship payments is your hardship payment stopped or reduced? And if stopped is this an infringement of some law or other — I heard a few years ago that the EU wouldn’t allow member countries to stop all benefits completely. But I might be wrong on that.

Sanctions, hardship payments and availability for work questions 18 Apr 2018 17:34 #7113

osris wrote:
Thanks. It does paint a grim picture.

If you are sanctioned while on hardship payments is your hardship payment stopped or reduced? And if stopped is this an infringement of some law or other — I heard a few years ago that the EU wouldn’t allow member countries to stop all benefits completely. But I might be wrong on that.

I can’t give you a specific answer right off as to what may happen in the scenarios you mention. A study of the sanction rules should yield an answer.

As for what you’ve heard, it is an undisputable fact that thousands are out on the streets, rendered homeless, thousands are reliant on food banks and charity, thousands are going mad and hundreds have committed suicide, the sick and disabled are pressurised and hounded to death or work they are incapable of doing, all because of this government’s welfare policies. And that’s before the current wave of policies have begun to take effect.
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Sanctions, hardship payments and availability for work questions 19 Apr 2018 08:28 #7115

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Hi Osris, And welcome to the Forum,
I'm Sorry we cannot give you better News, but with us all working together here,
At least we are better informed and ready for what ever the DWP & Job Centres throw at us. B)
YNWA: You'll Never Walk Alone

Sanctions, hardship payments and availability for work questions 19 Apr 2018 13:09 #7116

Here is the unfortunate case of Mr S. who has gone through the sort of experience that you are seeking answers to:

5. The Secretary of State imposed five medium–level sanctions, deciding in each case that Mr S had not taken all reasonable work search action. The sanction decisions related to the following periods:

(1) 18 August 2015 to 24 August 2015 (decision of 3 September 2015) (CUC/1653/2016; SC 065/15/00874). Decision 1 reduced Mr S’s UC by £10.40 per day for 28 days.

(2) 5 November 2015 to 11 November 2015 (decision of 5 December 2015) (CUC/1654/2016; SC 065/16/00008). Decision 2 reduced Mr S’s UC by £10.40 per day for 91 days, as did decisions 3 to 5;

(3) 12 November 2015 to 18 November 2015 (decision of 5 December 2015) (CUC/1655/2016; SC 065/16/00009);

(4) 19 November 2015 to 25 November 2015 (decision of 6 December 2015) (CUC/1656/2016; SC065/16/00010);

(5) 26 November 2015 to 2 December 2015 (decision of 6 December 2015) (CUC/1657/2016; SC065/16/00011).

So, as I see it;

(1) The first sanction applies to the period 18 Aug 2015 to 24 Aug 2015. The decision to apply the sanction was taken on 3 Sept. 2015. The sanction was for 28 days. The 28 day sanction would end on or around 1st Oct.

The claimant should be back on full benefit from 1st Oct.

(2) The second sanction applies to the period 5 Nov 2015 to 11 Nov 2015. The decision to apply the sanction was taken on 5 Dec 2015. The sanction was for 91 days.

(3) The third sanction applies to the period 12 Nov 2015 to 18 Nov 2015. The decision to apply the sanction was taken on 5 Dec 2015. The sanction was for 91 days.

(4) The fourth sanction applies to the period 19 Nov 2015 to 25 Nov 2015. The decision to apply the sanction was taken on 6 Dec 2015. The sanction was for 91 days.

(5) The fifth sanction applies to the period 26 Nov 2015 to 02 Dec 2015. The decision to apply the sanction was taken on 6 Dec 2015. The sanction was for 91 days.


Two examples that shows how this should work in practice:

Example 1
Trevor is in the all work-related requirements group. He fails to apply for a specific vacancy on 26 March 2014. The DM decides that he does not have good reason for the failure and a 91 day sanction is imposed. He subsequently fails to apply for another vacancy on 26 April 2014 without good reason.
As his previous higher level failure was in the 364 days preceding the current failure, but not in the preceding 13 days, escalation applies and a sanction for 182 days is imposed.

Example 2
Phillip is in the all work-related requirements group. He fails to apply for a specified vacancy on 12 August 2013. The DM decides that he does not have good reason for the failure and a 91 day sanction is imposed.
Phillip fails to apply for another vacancy on 25 August 2013. However, as the failure on 12 August is within the 13 days preceding the current failure, escalation does not apply and a further 91 day sanction is imposed.

As I understand it what happened in the case of Mr S was that for the 1st sanction the duration was 28 days and the rate of deduction was £10.40 per day.

Because the 2nd sanction was for a failure falling outside of 13 days but within 364 days of the first failure then an escalator is applied enabling the duration of the sanction to be extended to 91 days. The amount of the deduction remains the same at £10.40 per day. Could hardly have deducted any more since anyone on JSA would not be getting any more.

The next 3 failures, falling as they do within the 13 day time period, attracts the same level of sanction and the escalator does not apply.

The inference I take from the remark “……..a further 91 day sanction is imposed”. is that all four 91 day time periods are added together. This would make a grand total, according my calculator’s reckoning, of 364 days @ £10.40 per day = £3,785.60

I took the example of Mr S from:
www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/AAC/2017/477.pdf

The examples of Trevor and Phillip from:
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/457064/response/1115174/attach/19/01%20Topic%2001%20Sanction%20Length%20v11.1.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Anyone qualifying for, or entitled to a hardship payment at the beginning of this sort of penance would hardly be in a more advantageous or financially sound position by the end of it.

I hope this helps to address your concerns. Although it might be challenging to dig up and take in all the information necessary to inform yourself, it is easier than the alternative, experiencing it.
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Sanctions, hardship payments and availability for work questions 20 Apr 2018 11:38 #7120

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Thanks for all your replies.

The whole thing seems needlessly complex. Presumably to act as a disincentive for people to want to claim JSA or to make them want to voluntary stop claiming it and move back in with their parents if they are young enough to do so.

I’ve just come across a thing called Sector Based Work Academies. What are they? Are they like the notorious Work Programmes of a few years ago?

Sanctions, hardship payments and availability for work questions 20 Apr 2018 16:23 #7129

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see
welfarecentral.org/index.php/forum-home/workfare-programmes/59-sector-based-work-academy-voluntary Sector Based Work Academy (Voluntary)
and
welfarecentral.org/index.php/forum-home/workfare-programmes/1432-sector-based-work-academies Sector based work academies

apparently voluntary untill you sign paperwork then becomes mandatory. :sick:
Toads - Philip Larkin
Why should I let the toad work, Squat on my life?
Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork And drive the brute off?
Six days of the week it soils,With its sickening poison -
Just for paying a few bills! That's out of proportion...
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Sanctions, hardship payments and availability for work questions 20 Apr 2018 17:35 #7133

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Thanks.
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