­
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes?

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 23 May 2018 16:27 #7858

  • osris
  • osris's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 108
  • Thank you received: 46
What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? The last one I was aware of was The Work Programme, but that is now no longer running.

And if any one has been on one or is on one, what’s it like? And do you still have to have interviews with a wok roach if you are on one?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 23 May 2018 17:06 #7862

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2237
  • Thank you received: 2212
I`m not in England osris so telling you about Fair Start Scotland wouldn`t be any good! The new Work & Health Programme is now running elsewhere and no doubt the DWP website will have more information about work academies and the like. Depending on your age group, those in the younger categories are now mandated to some kind of work trials but not sure of the official branding. Employability schemes were running a year or so ago but whether those are still running, I`m not sure.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 23 May 2018 17:37 #7863

  • osris
  • osris's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 108
  • Thank you received: 46
Have you been on any work schemes in the past?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 23 May 2018 18:27 #7865

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2237
  • Thank you received: 2212
A few. Labour`s `New Deal` initiative back in the late 1990`s where I was placed in a paid job for around 18 months but was let go due to funding running out and more recently while on ESA, the Work Programme. In the past I done a fair few job clubs and similar `cat sat on the mat` courses but that`s about it. No doubt I will be offered more of the same in the years ahead but not if I`m already participating in something much more worthwhile which benefits me rather than them.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 23 May 2018 19:14 #7867

  • osris
  • osris's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 108
  • Thank you received: 46
Did you still have to see a work coach and apply for jobs on the Work Programme?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 24 May 2018 00:41 #7872

  • Verc
  • Verc's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 268
  • Thank you received: 508
My schemes go back to the early 1980's starting with Youth Opportunity Programmes (YOPs), these were tweaked and rebranded every so often. The last I did was in the early 90s with the PFA that involved coaching football in local schools, attending a few events and participating in the preliminary coaching badge - it changed my view of football in a negative way but I still like to watch some games. The worst one I did was catering, that lasted 2.5 days and was clearly going to be a waste of time as well as having with worst boss of any too. I completed all the others except Chamber of Commerce which was a total joke as most of the trainees were just sat around doing nothing with rarely a supervisor in sight. NVQ's were all the rage. I didn't get a job through any of these schemes but a few of the lads I met did in the early days. The best thing about it was it kept the job centre off your back and you got an extra tenner (£130 a quarter in Verc budgeting terms).

After the schemes I started seeking out my own voluntary work, largely through the NHS which I mostly enjoyed but still no job. I got to go on some interesting conferences and got paid for this as well as research projects which I worked on. I also worked in a few libraries but similar to the NHS staff places are tending to be cut back still now.

I have been largely on ESA since it's inception with a lot of that time spent appealing, the Work Programme came into being shortly after my second brief stint on JSA so I was lucky to avoid the whole thing.

Work and Health Programme is very much targeted at people like me though and as I am now virtually unemployable (WRAG advisor at the job centre said herself that I would at least have to do some volunteering first due to the long period since my last activity - why they moved me from the Support Group of ESA then seems pointless but then so does a lot of what the DWP do to justify their existence). I am 53 but I might as well be a school leaver. I dread what these programmes are going to be like going on the previous experiences of others. Right now my focus is on hoping the whole Universal Credit plan crashes on the rocks and forces the govt to abandon these projects (which imho are directly linked) although I honestly feel like this is the end of the welfare state looming large with the NHS not too far behind it.

It looks like it isn't going to make much difference whether you are on a programme or in a typically low paid job with this race to the bottom the UK seems to be locked into. Right now the future looks bleak and I am also hoping that somehow these W&H programmes will get legally challenged like a few did on the previous incarnation which had a lot more money spent on it and was still crap - hence my concerns.
ESA Appeals Veteran
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die, jobber, osris

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 24 May 2018 06:06 #7873

  • jobber
  • jobber's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 810
  • Thank you received: 1294
Hi Verc,

" I am 53 but I might as well be a school leaver. I dread what these programmes are going to be like going on the previous experiences of others. Right now my focus is on hoping the whole Universal Credit plan crashes on the rocks and forces the govt to abandon these projects (which imho are directly linked) although I honestly feel like this is the end of the welfare state looming large with the NHS not too far behind it."

Can totally relate to you, as i am also in me 50's and zero meaningful training available and i feel never will be as gov know only too well that people in their 50s, are highly likely to be suffering with some kind of health condition and have a low usage point to employers or should i say any types of employers who haven't left the UK or who pay decent pay.

The dwp /.gov are totally focused on getting people 40-50+ into any old numpty "job"does not matter that it gives us a standard of living of refugee status in the western world;as long as we are profitable to any business.This is the dwp's obsession of which will not work, people will just not work for a hand to mouth existence when they see a way out,be that back on benefits or in some other way.In the old days you would just go out and get a better paid job,them days are gone forever and people have very few choices at 50+; B&Q, Garden Centres,Warehouse City, Amazon,Pound-land, Greg's etc, all with great conditions and pay of course. :evil:

The SSP club truly make me puke!
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die, Warrior, Verc, osris

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 24 May 2018 07:26 #7875

  • Paul-UB40
  • Paul-UB40's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2242
  • Thank you received: 1535
Done a few Training Courses, First time I became Unemployed in the 90s, did a 6 Month "Training for Work" [ Mandated via a "Re-start Course" ]
at the end of 6 months got a Job :ohmy: , 2 years after that went self Employed.
After everything went to shit in 2009, actually got my GCSE in english & Math [ Better late than Never :) ] but that was while in Jail :( ,
did 6 months of the "Work Programme" 2012, cut short by a all paid inclusive Government "Holiday" :whistle:
after that gave up with signing on and got Pension Credit :) , till I lost it in Benefit Cuts. :angry:
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die, jobber, Warrior, Verc, osris

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 24 May 2018 08:53 #7883

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2237
  • Thank you received: 2212
osris wrote:
Did you still have to see a work coach and apply for jobs on the Work Programme?

No, I only attended the programme office. But I was on ESA at the time, there were many JSA claimants attending who would have been signing on as normal, so they would have had those signing days at their job centre as well as attending the WP. And possibly more pressure too.

Verc wrote: WRAG advisor at the job centre said herself that I would at least have to do some volunteering first due to the long period since my last activity

That`s exactly the same for me Verc. I joined a group off my own back when my coach was discussing some volunteering and rather than volunteer, which was originally discussed, I joined a charity as a member, which gives me more flexibility to come and go, rather than be tied to fixed hours, which suits me better right now. I have added my participation there onto my CV to relate to what I am doing at the moment, but I doubt it would be enough for an employer to jump up and down and offer me a job. I`m very much in the early states of `managing` and I can see it being a long road. I do enjoy going there though as it lifts the mood. I`m hoping to build some further skills there that may place me in a better position to work in that vein of mental health/arts/classroom setting.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Verc, osris

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 24 May 2018 12:19 #7889

  • osris
  • osris's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 108
  • Thank you received: 46
Thanks for all your responses.

What do people do on all these work schemes? Do they learn how to write CVs and how to apply for jobs etc? Or are you forced to do charity shop work or cutting grass in the park etc?

And how strict are the people who run these schemes, if you are a minute late in the morning, or you are off sick for a day, or have to go to a funeral? Will you be sanctioned for the slightest thing like on JSA or UC?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 24 May 2018 16:00 #7908

  • Paul-UB40
  • Paul-UB40's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2242
  • Thank you received: 1535
My First Course;
First time I became Unemployed in the 90s, did a 6 Month "Training for Work" [ Mandated via a "Re-start Course" ]
at the end of 6 months got a Job


Got paid a Extra £10 a week as well as Dole money & Travel Expenses, If you was more then 10 Minutes late on any single day you lost part of your benifits.
Any breach of Rules at Training centre you got thrown of it.

It was a full Hands on Practical Course on Floor & Wall Tiling as well as Plasturing, I completed and got Full Qualifications & Certificates to add to the rest of my Construction Papers; A Very useful course that would cost a lot of cash on the open market, Back then there was PROPER Training if you was out of Work,
Unlike the load of crap everyone gets now.

There was also great Competition to get a place on these Courses, how times have changed.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: El-dudeareno, jobber, Verc, osris

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 24 May 2018 17:47 #7912

  • Verc
  • Verc's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 268
  • Thank you received: 508
comply or die, glad you are still on the charity thing, update us if you get any crap off the JC. I think you might be on to something there in a similar way to how some of us escaped direct attention by finding our own voluntary placements.

osris I just realised I missed out that important detail - basically whilst it can get up the noses of some at the JC when you find something yourself, the fact that you have makes you less of a priority for them to find something for. They have used all sorts of tactics over the years, like telling people they might have to give up this or that (in my case both college course and first degree to which I basically laughed at them and said 'try it'). I was lucky because when I started at technical college and mentioned the JC, straightaway two women who had come to offer support to new students had gone through the same the previous year and said 'do not give up your course no matter what they say, they cannot force you just try and intimidate you.'

They would have to come up with something very good indeed in writing to pull you off something making you more employable. Record of the Work Programmes hardly cuts it and the expense they put into that has now gone down to something like tokenist levels. We do of course need to keep an eye on this matter of things becoming mandatory but still I think if you are already on something else that leads to a recognised qualification or experience in an area with some demand, I reckon you would have reasonable grounds for sueing - but I'm no lawyer or legal expert. They have nothing to offer that even comes close to what comply has found for herself, oh sorry I forgot the fork lift courses they used to go on and on about, probably lifting boxes of people's CVs in a pseudo warehouse mimmicking a real workplace like they mimmick working themselves behind their desks all week.

DWP treats as guilty until proven innocent. Work Programmes are a punishment not a training course. They put people on them to keep them occupied with the view if they are going to be lazy and sit on their backsides all day then they might as well be doing that where we can see them. They are of course doing this to 'improve lives' by protecting us from evils like daytime TV. I always like to drop in comments like I no longer have a TV. This is another way of letting them know that you can think for yourself, psychologically that might make them think twice before contemplating a sanction because if you are not busy watching jezza kyle (although that is probably still more educational than WPs if only as a study in social trends) then you might be busy genning up on employment law, travelling expenses and the like.
ESA Appeals Veteran
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die, jobber, osris

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 24 May 2018 19:15 #7919

  • osris
  • osris's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 108
  • Thank you received: 46
I thought that if you found a voluntary job yourself the work coach would not allow it, as it is not a “legitimate” one—in other words, not one of the ones on their books.

I heard of a case a few years ago of a woman who was told that if she chose a voluntary job herself she would not be classed as being available to “actively look for work” because she would have no time to. Of course, this only applies if any voluntary job is full-time or over the allowed DWP hours.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 24 May 2018 20:53 #7924

Verc wrote:
Work Programmes are a punishment not a training course. They put people on them to keep them occupied with the view if they are going to be lazy and sit on their backsides all day then they might as well be doing that where we can see them. They are of course doing this to 'improve lives' by protecting us from evils like daytime TV.
At one of my final appointments with my previous jobcentre, and the one which prompted me to ask for a tranfer, this was more or less confirmed. OK it wasn't for the work programme (I'd already done my 2 year sentence) but for the 6 week "Work Wise" course which they kept failing trying to get me to attend. The roach I saw (and I have a recording of this, I should provide a link for it one day so everyone can listen!) said I needed to go on this course so that the DWP were aware of my activities for a fixed period. The previous reasons, given from other roaches, like "you could learn something on this course" and similar crap, went out of the window. It was quite the revelation though that he actually told the truth.
Flotsam: People who are considered to be worthless or to have been rejected by society.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die, Verc

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 25 May 2018 09:00 #7933

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2237
  • Thank you received: 2212
Verc wrote: comply or die, glad you are still on the charity thing, update us if you get any crap off the JC. I think you might be on to something there in a similar way to how some of us escaped direct attention by finding our own voluntary placements

I will Verc, no problem. I had a run in with an Employability scheme run in the next building to where I am now that has since closed (I seem to jinks things they send me to for some reason!) and it was then I found out about the arts place connected next door, although I wasn`t sent there I was sent to meet the person running the gallery/bistro in the joined-up building which is now run by a charity too, so the job centre have no connections with it now, although they do `know` about the organisation I`ve joined, but cannot contact them or gain any personal information from them (I`ve just signed a new data waiver last week saying they will NOT share my details with any third party) and that means DWP. So if I was to get a sniff of an leaks, they would be in trouble, but I know they are decent people and because they are connected with mental health, they have to be very strict.

What I`ve learned here Verc is, I have skills in my graphic design past and transfer some of those skills to the groups I meet there and also my limited work in the NHS as a receptionist albeit that was a while ago, so confidentiality, compassion, social skills and generally learning more about working with people who have mental health, disabilities, learning disabilities and at the same time, coping with my own problems and using my time there to meet some genuine people who never judge.

Verc wrote: We do of course need to keep an eye on this matter of things becoming mandatory but still I think if you are already on something else that leads to a recognised qualification or experience in an area with some demand

Well put Verc. That`s how I see things and would argue that I am not just there to give me an outlet for my own problems while on ESA to satisfy the work related activity element, but to further the knowledge I have in an area where I could actually find employment in the future should I seek to do so. If we are only allowed to use these places as a short term `fix` and then be dragged away to do a cat sat on the mat course to please the tax payer, then they are not allowing individuals to choose their own pathway and create and build a portfolio of life skills that are highly important these days as technology is king and with people losing their jobs in droves because of that, society will NEED more people to work within social areas like self help, counselling, etc....

I get on eally well with the people who run the drop in I attend and I know the CEO would give me a good letter or reference if I needed her help to tackle any notion from JCP that I should leave and do something they demanded. I wouldn`t be doing that unless they could produce some law that forced it. I have a few `laws` of my own that would challenge that. Using our influence with work coaches where we write down the positives of what we are doing,why and the outcomes we have achieved can go a log way to convince an otherwise sceptical view. They obviouly have `some` clout in decison making, but remember too, they are only doing what their managers/bosses tell them to do (targets), so we should remember that convincing the unconvincible is not impossible if approached correctly. I know that`s easy to say when on ESA and not JSA/UC, but I would still argue the same points regardless. They ARE winnable.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jobber, Verc

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 25 May 2018 14:42 #7948

  • jobber
  • jobber's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 810
  • Thank you received: 1294
Tarquin_Flotsam wrote:
Verc wrote:
Work Programmes are a punishment not a training course. They put people on them to keep them occupied with the view if they are going to be lazy and sit on their backsides all day then they might as well be doing that where we can see them. They are of course doing this to 'improve lives' by protecting us from evils like daytime TV.
At one of my final appointments with my previous jobcentre, and the one which prompted me to ask for a tranfer, this was more or less confirmed. OK it wasn't for the work programme (I'd already done my 2 year sentence) but for the 6 week "Work Wise" course which they kept failing trying to get me to attend. The roach I saw (and I have a recording of this, I should provide a link for it one day so everyone can listen!) said I needed to go on this course so that the DWP were aware of my activities for a fixed period. The previous reasons, given from other roaches, like "you could learn something on this course" and similar crap, went out of the window. It was quite the revelation though that he actually told the truth.


Hi Tarquin,

would love to hear that audio :lol: .

How did you manage to stop them forcing you onto one of their numpty courses ?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What are the latest workfare and workfare “training” schemes? 25 May 2018 16:35 #7956

jobber wrote:
How did you manage to stop them forcing you onto one of their numpty courses ?
The first couple of times, they only gave me a sheet of paper showing the course and where it was, but no information on what the course actually entailed. They rang the providers for me to attend, but after seeking advice I realised they'd failed to include a jobseeker's direction for what was a "voluntary" course so didn't bother going. After failing to attend the 2nd time the dopey work roach asked why, and when I told her it's a voluntary course which looked like it would be of no use to me whatsoever I decided against wasting my time going. So, the third time she issued a jobseeker's direction to attend, swiftly followed by me taking a sickie on the date of attendance. Fourth time they tried to make me attend I took an extended sick period of 2 months. Fifth time, with a different roach, again they failed to include a jobseeker's direction when they booked me to attend and I explained once more the course is "voluntary". The final time was at my final appointment at my previous jobcentre where yet another work roach failed to add a jobseeker's direction to attend.

At the next jobcentre I was asked once about the "Work Wise" course and why I hadn't attended. I explained that I felt the voluntary (much emphasis on the word voluntary) course, after researching thoroughly all activities on it, would be of no benefit to me, so took it upon myself to book an online course which would be much more beneficial and at no cost to me being on JSA. It was never mentioned again.

As for the audio, I'll see what I can do. Will have to be some editing as the meeting with the roach was about half hour long...
Flotsam: People who are considered to be worthless or to have been rejected by society.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Verc
­