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TOPIC: Contradiction in a document called “Jobseeker Agreement / Claimant Commitment

Contradiction in a document called “Jobseeker Agreement / Claimant Commitment 08 Jun 2018 15:33 #8503

  • Tufty
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There seems to be a contradiction in this document.

It says:

“However the test of whether a claimant is actively seeking work is not that the claimant must perform the activities contained in the agreement or commitment. A claimant is not required to take those steps for finding work set out in the agreement in order to count as actively seeking work”

Then in the next sentence says:

“That said, where a claimant does not do the things set out in the agreement or does not look for the type of work set out in their agreement it is likely that they may not be regarded actively seeking work.”

www.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/files/Sanction%20Busting!%20-%20Workshop%20Notes.pdf

Is this a contradiction or not?
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Contradiction in a document called “Jobseeker Agreement / Claimant Commitment 08 Jun 2018 17:37 #8504

  • Benefit Bolshie
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The document goes on to explain what is meant.
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Contradiction in a document called “Jobseeker Agreement / Claimant Commitment 08 Jun 2018 18:07 #8508

  • archangel
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This link seems to be dead.

Can you explain what it goes on to explain?
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Contradiction in a document called “Jobseeker Agreement / Claimant Commitment 09 Jun 2018 08:58 #8520

  • Paul-UB40
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archangel wrote:
This link seems to be dead.

Can you explain what it goes on to explain?

Links to a PDF Document,
www.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/files/Sanction%20Busting!%20-%20Workshop%20Notes.pdf

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Contradiction in a document called “Jobseeker Agreement / Claimant Commitment 09 Jun 2018 11:59 #8526

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Benefit Bolshie wrote:
The document goes on to explain what is meant.

I’ve just gone through the document and can’t see an explanation for the contradiction. There is a general explanation about a claimant’s rights regarding cc compliance with regard to the tribunal case of a person named “C”, but no explanation about the contradictory wording in the paragraph that Tufty points out.

Can you help us out here?
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Contradiction in a document called “Jobseeker Agreement / Claimant Commitment 09 Jun 2018 15:16 #8533

  • Benefit Bolshie
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The test of whether a claimant is actively seeking work is not what he has not done, even if what he has not done is set out in the agreement. It’s the things he has done that is the test.

Where a claimant does not do the things set out in the agreement, or does not look for the type of work set out in their agreement, it is possible that the things the claimant did do were inconsistent with the Regulations and offered little or no prospect of finding or getting a job. In other words, busy doing nothing to improve your lot will not wash. The claimant would fail the test.
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Contradiction in a document called “Jobseeker Agreement / Claimant Commitment 09 Jun 2018 16:47 #8534

  • archangel
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Thanks for attempting to explain, but it still seems contradictory.

Perhaps others here can chip in and make it clearer.
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Contradiction in a document called “Jobseeker Agreement / Claimant Commitment 09 Jun 2018 16:56 #8535

  • MrFrankZola
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The CPAG doc is for a Workshop www.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/files/Sanction%20Busting!%20-%20Workshop%20Notes.pdf so may not be ideal for basing decisions upon. AskCPAG is better, alongside it's handbooks which are usually available for reference at a library

How can you avoid a JSA ‘actively seeking work’ sanction?
"Case law* confirms that whether you are actively seeking work is a test of what you do, rather than what you do not do."
www.cpag.org.uk/content/ask-cpag-online-how-can-you-avoid-jsa-actively-seeking-work-sanction

*Case law referred to by CPAG
CJSA/1814/2007
"That this is the benchmark is confirmed by the standard wording on the Agreement "
administrativeappeals.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk//Aspx/view.aspx?id=2249
Web version www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSSCSC/2007/CJSA_1814_2007.html

CJSA/1814/2007 is referred in a number of rulings on bailii.org
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Contradiction in a document called “Jobseeker Agreement / Claimant Commitment 09 Jun 2018 17:22 #8536

  • archangel
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Just came across this paragraph from the link you gave:

www.cpag.org.uk/content/ask-cpag-online-how-can-you-avoid-jsa-actively-seeking-work-sanction

“Case law confirms that whether you are actively seeking work is a test of what you do, rather than what you do not do. The test is whether you take such steps as you are reasonably required to take to secure the best prospects of obtaining employment, and not whether you take all the steps set out in your claimant commitment. Although your claimant committment is important evidence of whether you are actively seeking work, you cannot legally be sanctioned simply because you have failed to carry out all the steps set out in the committment. The legal test is whether you have taken at least three steps in a week, or whether fewer steps are reasonable; what steps are taken; and whether those steps are reasonable. If you satisfy the test, it is irrelevant that you fail to take other steps, whether or not they are in your commitment. Nevertheless, in practice, the DWP often threaten and impose sanctions on the basis of a failure to carry out all the steps in the claimant committment, so you should try your best to comply, or seek to have the committment changed if it is too onerous or unreasonable.”

This makes more sense than the paragraph Tufty quotes from that other document, which makes no mention of not having to do all the things on your CC and yet still be regarded as being available for work. I think that’s were the confusion was for Tufty.

All in all the DWP tend to use such legalese to cover themselves against “unfair” sanction accusations.
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