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TOPIC: universal credit online service

universal credit online service 23 Jun 2018 18:51 #8921

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As for having people doing the UC interrogation in all forms possible this reminds me of enrolling for uni when they had everything quadruplicate and still ballsed it up. And I had to deal with the JC on top as well. It is bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy. Once again UC proving not fit for purpose - the purpose being; to make things simpler for benefits claimants, instead they have sucked the low paid into the mire as well. How ministers can still dismiss a UBI which would eliminate the means testing and time consuming side only underlines how it has all been designed to create as much chaos and confusion as possible. As Orwell was basically saying with his ministries in 1984 (ministry of Love which deals in Hate...etc) expect whatever politicians say to mean the opposite of what they really intend.
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universal credit online service 23 Jun 2018 19:38 #8922

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Thanks for that rundown Spike, seems to make more sense now. I read about choosing the `go to the job centre` part to verify in person and then phoning within 7 days to make that appointment. It also makes sense for the two sessions (Verification and CC agreement) to be split due to the evidence perhaps not being there and the claimant having to go back again. It`s all a bit of a logistical nightmare but I suppose if you get it right, do the online stuff, then the phone call, check your emails/journal and follow up the instructions....it SHOULD go okay. But we all know it can go balls up!

Not too sure about this UC journal though.....don`t suppose when we `sign up` to UC this is all part of the plan to join up an email address to create a UC journal? I`m not sure if the journal is something UC claimants need to have/use? But if it`s all part of the registration process, then chances are we are asking them to contact us by email only, or do they link this email address to a UC online journal? is this UC journal mandatory/part of the UC claim? Or can be bypass it somehow when making the claim? If nobody knows, it`s okay.
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 07:27 #8924

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'bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy.' Totally agree Verc, the SSP club have to keep themselves and their old boys network in employment by inventing realms of bureaucratic bullshit year after year;or should we say decade after decade :) :evil: :whistle:

UC journal requirements found here thanks to Frank Zola :)
mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2017/10/20/dwp-says-universal-credit-journal-not-mandatory-for-your-work-search-records-or-cv-why/
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 08:54 #8926

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Thanks jobber. I still get the impression though that by choosing not to create a UC journal for means of recording what we have applied for and other actions taken, claimants then must use their own `digital` means or paper-based means to record their job search and I can see the scenario play out where someone does this without using electronic means and the work coach using all their tools of persuasion to change that. Also, not having easy access to a printer each week/fortnight could be problematic unless we are writing everything down on paper in a work folder which is fine, but again, I can see a coach shuffling through each page and picking holes in it.

The UC system is created to be a tool of ultimate control, even though it is set up to aid the jobseeker record their actions and have digital access to their records and work coach, finding ways around it to present our `agreement` seems to be a constant effort to override it where we are always going to have to find failsafe answers to constant ongoing battled of wills. I would onlywant to claim UC for means of surviving like everyone else does without feeling `tied` to a virtual monster that will worsen my mental health. But it seems just making a claim for UC is the beginning of the end of choices we have had in the past, even though thereare loopholes in it and we can choose not to abide by them where we can. I know everyone is different and i`m coming from an ESA perspective here, so I would want any Claimant Commitment to reflect my personal circumstances, but even so, I will find UC to be a constant ball and chain.
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 11:28 #8932

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comply or die wrote:
Thanks for that rundown Spike, seems to make more sense now. I read about choosing the `go to the job centre` part to verify in person and then phoning within 7 days to make that appointment. It also makes sense for the two sessions (Verification and CC agreement) to be split due to the evidence perhaps not being there and the claimant having to go back again. It`s all a bit of a logistical nightmare but I suppose if you get it right, do the online stuff, then the phone call, check your emails/journal and follow up the instructions....it SHOULD go okay. But we all know it can go balls up!

Not too sure about this UC journal though.....don`t suppose when we `sign up` to UC this is all part of the plan to join up an email address to create a UC journal? I`m not sure if the journal is something UC claimants need to have/use? But if it`s all part of the registration process, then chances are we are asking them to contact us by email only, or do they link this email address to a UC online journal? is this UC journal mandatory/part of the UC claim? Or can be bypass it somehow when making the claim? If nobody knows, it`s okay.
======
There is No mention of a UC Journal when signing up, they don't ask you to accept it or use it during signing up, it's just there (by default) whenever you sign in to your UC account and it would have already recorded everything that has happened with your UC Account so far... all dated and time stamped.
As far as I know its NOT something that they can make you fill in about job search activity (Yet).
There is No Way to bypass/avoid/decline it being there.
The E-Mail address used is linked directly to the journal.
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 11:43 #8933

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Many thanks Spike for clarifying this. So the journal is part of the UC claim itself as it will be `linked` to that UC claim but as things stand, we can still choose to present our jobsearch in other ways like recording it ourselves on a Word document ready to attach to an email for the coach to view? Or even printed out if we chose to do it that way rather than electronically? Meaning, we could type it all up, save (copy & paste) web links and email responses to applications within that Word page and THIS would be regarded as out evidence, rather than in-puting it through this journal?

Does anyone actually USE their UC journal to send messages to their work coach or the UC people generally, or do you just receive email notifications to your inbox asking you to `check your journal` for updates?
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 12:12 #8935

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comply or die wrote:
Many thanks Spike for clarifying this. So the journal is part of the UC claim itself as it will be `linked` to that UC claim but as things stand, we can still choose to present our jobsearch in other ways like recording it ourselves on a Word document ready to attach to an email for the coach to view? Or even printed out if we chose to do it that way rather than electronically? Meaning, we could type it all up, save (copy & paste) web links and email responses to applications within that Word page and THIS would be regarded as out evidence, rather than in-puting it through this journal?

Does anyone actually USE their UC journal to send messages to their work coach or the UC people generally, or do you just receive email notifications to your inbox asking you to `check your journal` for updates?
========================
Correct on all points of the above. (as far as I know).
I have already used the journal to contact my work coach after I was (somehow) booked in Twice to sign on, and
I had filled in a sick note (via the account) , then showed it to my work coach BUT my 'To-Do' list was Still telling me
to provide a sick/fit note.
This was cleared up after the message to the Coach. My signing appointment had been moved
(but she forgot to clear the old appointment) and the Main UC office which 'clears' the Sick/Fit note EITHER hadn't
cleared it yet OR forgot to.
Sounds like a great system so far !
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 14:42 #8936

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I get it now. The journal is basically `set up` when we make the UC online claim and will `be there` should we need to access it? For example contacting the work coach to clarify something, change an appointment, question anything we notice isn`t right etc...

The `fit note` thing is interesting Spike. How do you apply a manual fit note (from a GP) to the online journal? Have they now allowed for claimants to get a fit note from a GP and then go to their UC journal to fill out exactly what the fit note states and send it electronically? Or do they still ask for the fit note to be sent/faxed or handed into the job centre? I only had two fit notes before while on JSA when I was waiting on my ESA appeal to come through and handed these in to be copied and then faxed in. Was all dealth with well, I have to say, but I know the system can failat the drop of a hat, which is why we need to be `on the ball` so to speak!

Edited to add this link:
www.choice-housing.org/media/3308/step-by-step-guide-to-making-and-maintaining-a-universal-credit-clain.pdf

Found this useful link to claiming UC. Just reading through it is giving me a migraine....
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 17:47 #8938

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comply or die wrote:
I get it now. The journal is basically `set up` when we make the UC online claim and will `be there` should we need to access it? For example contacting the work coach to clarify something, change an appointment, question anything we notice isn`t right etc...

The `fit note` thing is interesting Spike. How do you apply a manual fit note (from a GP) to the online journal? Have they now allowed for claimants to get a fit note from a GP and then go to their UC journal to fill out exactly what the fit note states and send it electronically? Or do they still ask for the fit note to be sent/faxed or handed into the job centre? I only had two fit notes before while on JSA when I was waiting on my ESA appeal to come through and handed these in to be copied and then faxed in. Was all dealth with well, I have to say, but I know the system can failat the drop of a hat, which is why we need to be `on the ball` so to speak!

Edited to add this link:
www.choice-housing.org/media/3308/step-by-step-guide-to-making-and-maintaining-a-universal-credit-clain.pdf

Found this useful link to claiming UC. Just reading through it is giving me a migraine....
================
On the UC 'Home Page' there is an option to 'Report a Fit Note', clicking on this takes you to a page that allows you to input the 'Start Date' and 'End Date' on the Fit Note, clicking 'Next' takes you to a 'Text Box' Titled 'Notes'... this is where you put in the reason for the sick/fit note.
You then take it in to show your adviser at the next signing date.(you might be able to upload it instead).

This is still a 'Grey Area' to me ! I put in a 3 Month fit/sick note (for COPD) but Still have to sign on every fortnight.
I have just received a Health Questionnaire which I have to fill in and return within 1 Month, then I will get an appointment to see someone who will decide my ability to work.
Seems like putting in a sick/fit note now means very little.

If I still have to sign on every 2 weeks when on a sick/fit note... then why bother uploading it !?
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 18:26 #8939

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Spike, the `Health` questionnaire you were asked to fill out will be an ESA50 form? Or could now be called the UC50? If you can remember? It`s always worth copying this form incase you need to look back at what your answered on it. Is this the first time you will have claimed ESA (or LCW - Limited Capability for Work) as it`s now known under UC? The fit notes you are being asked to provide are what is called the ESA `assessment phase` for up to 13 weeks, or however long it takes them to assess your health and how it affects your ability to work, or to reduce your conditionality, as the case may be.

I`ve just realised you may be in the process of being assessed by Maximus for an entitlement to ESA when claiming UC. A new claim for ESA would only pay the same rate as the old JSA benefit of around £73.10p a week because anyone assessed after April 2017 won`t get the extra `top up` of £29 a week that was paid previously. I still get that but only because my ESA claim is ongoing from before 2017. I would lose it if I ever lost an ESA appeal and had to claim UC.

Sorry, lost the plot there and started discussing ESA instead of UC claims! :oops:
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 22:28 #8940

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Very relevant though c o d, Limited Capability for work under UC was precisely what my advisor started talking about when I mentioned the doing away with ESA and assuming there would be no sickness element. No doubt there will still be the same old 0 points scores assessed by Maximus, followed by mandatory reconsideration and appealing. The more I think about UC the less I see it as something new. More like the latest tweak we get every so often whilst making things even trickier and harsher and as it is already struggling I doubt will be the final installment, I mean ESA was also supposed to improve things. Work programmes are still here and in reality there is not as much changed about the overall infrastructure through UC as I think the DWP are trying to make us believe. The changes on housing benefit side are the nasty sequel to sanctions aimed at catching a few more in the net.
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 23:12 #8942

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Verc wrote:
Very relevant though c o d, Limited Capability for work under UC was precisely what my advisor started talking about when I mentioned the doing away with ESA and assuming there would be no sickness element. No doubt there will still be the same old 0 points scores assessed by Maximus, followed by mandatory reconsideration and appealing. The more I think about UC the less I see it as something new. More like the latest tweak we get every so often whilst making things even trickier and harsher and as it is already struggling I doubt will be the final installment, I mean ESA was also supposed to improve things. Work programmes are still here and in reality there is not as much changed about the overall infrastructure through UC as I think the DWP are trying to make us believe. The changes on housing benefit side are the nasty sequel to sanctions aimed at catching a few more in the net.
==============================
Funny you should mention that !
My Brother who WAS on ESA for being an alcoholic, then got his assessment results back as '0' and was then told that he had to sign up to Universal Credit.
The person assessing him even mentioned in the report that she often smelled Alcohol on his breath ! But He still scored '0'.

Does this mean that it is also acceptable to turn up at your place of work stinking of Alcohol ?
The DWP seem to think that it's perfectly fine and there is no problem with smelling of alcohol when you go to work and it isn't a problem.

They will just force you into taking a job and then you will just get the sack for smelling of alcohol and then it will be your own fault/self inflicted and then they can just sanction you for losing your job !
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universal credit online service 24 Jun 2018 23:52 #8943

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comply or die wrote:
Spike, the `Health` questionnaire you were asked to fill out will be an ESA50 form? Or could now be called the UC50? If you can remember? It`s always worth copying this form incase you need to look back at what your answered on it. Is this the first time you will have claimed ESA (or LCW - Limited Capability for Work) as it`s now known under UC? The fit notes you are being asked to provide are what is called the ESA `assessment phase` for up to 13 weeks, or however long it takes them to assess your health and how it affects your ability to work, or to reduce your conditionality, as the case may be.

I`ve just realised you may be in the process of being assessed by Maximus for an entitlement to ESA when claiming UC. A new claim for ESA would only pay the same rate as the old JSA benefit of around £73.10p a week because anyone assessed after April 2017 won`t get the extra `top up` of £29 a week that was paid previously. I still get that but only because my ESA claim is ongoing from before 2017. I would lose it if I ever lost an ESA appeal and had to claim UC.

Sorry, lost the plot there and started discussing ESA instead of UC claims! :oops:
========================
Its a UC50 form and its still in my drawer waiting to be filled in.
I am already on UC and have never claimed ESA before so I take it that I am waiting on being assessed for 'Limited Capability for Work'.
I will fill in the UC50 at the last minute... I AINT GIVING THEM A HEAD START ON ME :)

Weird thing is that my work coach is already tweaking my CC agreements to allow for the COPD condition that I have. Its like 'She Knows' that I will
fail.
I think that the assessment is designed to be failed.

I have No problem with taking on a job that I can do, I just don't want to be forced into a job that I can't do and then getting sanctioned for either getting sacked or quitting because my lungs couldn't keep up with it.
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universal credit online service 25 Jun 2018 00:42 #8944

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Spike wrote:
Verc wrote:
Very relevant though c o d, Limited Capability for work under UC was precisely what my advisor started talking about when I mentioned the doing away with ESA and assuming there would be no sickness element. No doubt there will still be the same old 0 points scores assessed by Maximus, followed by mandatory reconsideration and appealing. The more I think about UC the less I see it as something new. More like the latest tweak we get every so often whilst making things even trickier and harsher and as it is already struggling I doubt will be the final installment, I mean ESA was also supposed to improve things. Work programmes are still here and in reality there is not as much changed about the overall infrastructure through UC as I think the DWP are trying to make us believe. The changes on housing benefit side are the nasty sequel to sanctions aimed at catching a few more in the net.
==============================
Funny you should mention that !
My Brother who WAS on ESA for being an alcoholic, then got his assessment results back as '0' and was then told that he had to sign up to Universal Credit.
The person assessing him even mentioned in the report that she often smelled Alcohol on his breath ! But He still scored '0'.

Does this mean that it is also acceptable to turn up at your place of work stinking of Alcohol ?
The DWP seem to think that it's perfectly fine and there is no problem with smelling of alcohol when you go to work and it isn't a problem.

They will just force you into taking a job and then you will just get the sack for smelling of alcohol and then it will be your own fault/self inflicted and then they can just sanction you for losing your job !
================
My Brother is a 'Roofer' by trade. So he has now been cleared by the DWP to turn up for work with the smell
of alcohol on his breath and work 20ft to 30ft up on a house roof !
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universal credit online service 25 Jun 2018 12:28 #8948

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Sorry for the later reply Spike, been out this morning at the dentist. Oh joy.... :S

The UC50 form is your ticket to LCW (Limited Capability for Work (WRAG) - or LCW Related Activity, which was the Support Group of ESA. Still is as a `legacy` benefit but now nearly everyone making a claim for ESA is given either LCW or LCWRA. If you fail the assessment (and many do due to the trickery they play) it`s Mandatory Reconsideration (this is usually a rubber stamping of the original fit for work decision and a time wasting excersize) and then appeal.

I recommend everyone takes their decision to appeal because some people throw in the towel. If you believe you have GENUINE REASONS for making a LCW claim, then DO it. Medical evidence should be matched with descriptors, so COPD would mean you cannot mobilise X without needing to stop due to significant pain or exhaustion or carry out manual tasks easily, explaining WHY and giving examples. Don`t leave out anything you feel is important. The Maximus assessor will be looking for clues regarding what you CAN do, but don`t be too enthusiastic here. S/he might ask you if you walk to the shops, do your own meals. housework etc....so you need to THINK before you answer. Never rush or say Yes or No. Try and reply by saying, "I can`t manage to MOBILISE (don`t say walk as it`s not a walking test) without taking a rest or sitting down. I become breathless attempting to do X or anything that concerns your ability to repeat that action reliably or SAFELY.

DWP have a `virtual wheelchair` as well and will say in their decision that if you are found fit for work, that in their opinion, you could do SOME work and use a manual wheelchair to get around an office. So if you don`t have the energy or upper body strength to do so, state this on the form.

You wrote: I have No problem with taking on a job that I can do, I just don't want to be forced into a job that I can't do and then getting sanctioned for either getting sacked or quitting because my lungs couldn't keep up with it.

But you make sure that you never tell them this. If you CAN manage some work by restricting your hours, journey time etc....it`s better you do that using medical evidence and even if you are placed in the LCW category, it means you have NO jobsearching to do, but you could still look for a job on your own time if it`s what you wanted to do, but you don`t tell your coach this unless you want to do `permitted work` and that`s a whole other thread!
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universal credit online service 26 Jun 2018 08:45 #8962

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Hi Spike,

I'd show confirmation of any letter from the DWP stating your brother is fit for work and alcohol dependant; i am guessing he may have some evidence of this from his DR,if so, no 'responsible employer' will take him on while in that condition, i feel the employers insurance company would not pay out on any accident while working there :whistle: , so DWP are putting his health at risk and be in big trouble for doing so :evil: :angry: .

A trip to Dr with a letter drafted pointing all this out to DWP would be good. :evil:

This is DWP with the brain of a fly at work here, all work is good for you no matter what state you may be in.


"Does this mean that it is also acceptable to turn up at your place of work stinking of Alcohol ?
The DWP seem to think that it's perfectly fine and there is no problem with smelling of alcohol when you go to work and it isn't a problem."


I wonder if they have ever been breath tested, i know there would be a high failure rate in the SSP club though. :) :evil:

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universal credit online service 26 Jun 2018 11:57 #8972

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Hi Jobber requested Edits done. B)
YNWA: You'll Never Walk Alone
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universal credit online service 26 Jun 2018 16:28 #8983

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Not sure if this has already been added by spike etc  but thought may be useful to share my trip to the clown center sorry roach center.

Had my apointment to verfiy my new UC online account yesterday 
after doing the 3hr fillng out forms online and daft verfiy thing a few days ago. :angry:

Gets to roach center
roach calls my name 
Have u got ID shows him my ID can you confirm name d.o.b

Roach 1
Right thats good heres your UC card with log in details o and you need to come back tommrow so they can go through your account show you how to log on and build up your CC.

Me
Is that not what i am here for today.

Roach 1
No just to show ID  and get this card.

Me
I spent 3 hours filling out forms online to verfy its me etc so what was point me doing that if i just did the same today here.

Roach 1
I dont know  so are your already on the old style UC

Me.
If you mean i havent signed up to the online verson Yes i am then.
Its just wasting my time comeing back here tommrow cant you do the CC today

Roach1
No its seperate appointment

Me
 i want to speak to manager then if thats the case.

Roach 1
Hold on a min

Comes back right we can sort it today go sit at roach 2s  desk over ther he will see to you.

Me
So then went sat ther with other new roach2

he started
Explaning to me the new online service
Right as its a new claim and change of circumstnce its weekly sign on 

Me
Hmm
Its Not a new claim i have been on UC 4months etc and what change are we talking about?

Roach 2
Well its classed as a new claim and change of circumstance when you sign up to the new live online service even if you are on old UC people are moveing over to it so its diffrent then old service and classed as new claim.
You wont see your old roach you will get a new one.

Roach 2

I have some questions to ask

Whats your mental state.
Any health issues.
Are you a carer for any 1.
Do you have any children.
Whats your living arangment.
Have you got criminal record.
When did you last work.
What qualifications you have.
Do you drive.
How do you normly get to a job drive walk etc.
You will work for the min wage i am assumeing.
Have you signed up to any agencys or job sites for example the civil service website.
Do you have a cv ready to use.
How do you look for work
Do you have internet access
Do you have a pc and know how to use it


Any questions

I will show you how to provide evidence of job search

Ther is 2 ways to add job info 1 useing the journel and you can also add info on home page for jobs you applied for and jobs intrested in.

If you add work search info and click the work search option on homepage your roach wont receave that unless you click it as a message option  ther is a number of options to choose from some we can see for example a message but some we dont see such as work search activity added.

You will be givin items on you to do list some have time scales and you must do them or risk it effecting your UC claim as a example can you upload your cv i will put that on a 2week time scale so you got 2 weeks to add it.

You will get a text msg on phone when you have a message on your journal from your roach.


As i was walking off 

Roach
O and dont forget to bring your ID  and card incase we need to log in to your account  next time your here.

Me
Yer sur ill bring my washing aswell.

Now why would i need to log in if they have access to the acount? I wont be doing that.


Also noticed something strange seen an agency worker walking around job centre in a hi vis vest helping claments fill out job applications 

When i say agency i mean for example not a dwp employee but a guy with a hi vis for example writing on the back saying (reed, hays) etc.

Is that not roachs job to do stuff like that and surly they dont have access to claments data etc.
It is a blessing for a man to have a hand in determining his own fate
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universal credit online service 26 Jun 2018 16:53 #8986

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And all this AFTER you spend 3 hours online? :unsure: It`s as if they go over every detail again once you have made a claim online.

blackbeard wrote: Had my apointment to verfiy my new UC online account yesterday

So they are asking UC claimants to RE-CLAIM again to this `new` UC online version?


This: UC people are moveing over to it so its diffrent then old service and classed as new claim.

I thought ALL UC claimants had to claim online anyway? Strange they are asking existing UC claiamnts to do it all again?
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universal credit online service 26 Jun 2018 17:22 #8989

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after the amount of questions the roach center ask me i feel
i would probably pass the SAS selection training interrogation part easily.

roach told me on there computer its classed as a new claim even if your already on the old version of UC now.
(old version meaning you haven't signed up to the universal online website with the journal etc)

roach shown me my UC pay date on computer account
said o its incorrect at the moment because you just went from old to new UC
but dont worry it will be changed at head office once they see you was on old UC.

When i first made claim around 4 months ago i did it online
filled out details etc then they send you a letter in post you get first appointment
you have to take a bill proof of address ID etc then you say how you will look for work etc.

yesterday was more or less the same as if ive never signed on before
same daft questions etc.

only difference he said you wont sign anything today and you wont get a paper sign on day card because its all online
so appointment will be on your online account and you should get a text message aswell.

also when you use the universal credit website to log in and click on the to do list etc its classed as a digital signature
so no paperwork to sign etc.

you dont get letters in the post ether anymore he said its all online if you get a job as an example you dont phone the UC helpline
now you can log in and tell them online or if you get a fit note etc you can do it online.

i just dont trust them at all reminds me of the Greeks and the famous Trojan horse
It is a blessing for a man to have a hand in determining his own fate
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