­
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Roach and emails

Roach and emails 09 Mar 2018 10:37 #6468

  • El-dudeareno
  • El-dudeareno's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 251
  • Thank you received: 211
I got an email from the work-roach asking for the email I use for my UJM account? While I open this UJM-account years ago and don't use the email anymore. And have another email I use to contact the Roach :evil: , hence the email I got from them. I was wondering if this has happen to anyone else, as it seem a back door way to get access to my UJm Account, as I made sure the box was unticked?
Do not let the behaviour of others destroy your inner peace.
The topic has been locked.

Roach and emails 09 Mar 2018 12:15 #6469

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2042
  • Thank you received: 1922
Hi dude. If you have ticked the `no access` box, they shouldn`t be asking you for the email attached to it as their own guidelines say you only need to HAVE a UJM account but don`t have to allow access to it. I would politely email them back and ask why they require it as you don`t give access to your UJM account. If they are sniffing around looking for proof that you have an account, send them a screenshot of the page showing that you have `logged in` but show a page that doesn`t have your username. I know they can use an email address attached to the account to show that you have opened an account, but this alone won`t give them access.

And say you use a different email for that account to the one you contact DWP with.
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jobber, Carlos Marighella, Verc

Roach and emails 10 Mar 2018 10:55 #6488

  • El-dudeareno
  • El-dudeareno's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 251
  • Thank you received: 211
Thanks for the advice CoD, I will take a screenshot of my UJM Account with any details blacked out. As it has "Welcome El-Dudeareno" at the top right to prove that I logged in. So that should be evidence enough for the Roach that I have an account... ;)
Do not let the behaviour of others destroy your inner peace.
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die

Roach and emails 11 Mar 2018 13:41 #6496

  • Catwoman
  • Catwoman's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 118
  • Thank you received: 167
You have already given them an email address they can contact you with. Why should you give them another?
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: KatiLB

Roach and emails 12 Mar 2018 13:37 #6506

  • El-dudeareno
  • El-dudeareno's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 251
  • Thank you received: 211
Catwoman wrote:
You have already given them an email address they can contact you with. Why should you give them another?

That is what I couldn't understand Catwoman :blink: ? Just seem like a Phishing scheme from the Roach to me?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phishing
Do not let the behaviour of others destroy your inner peace.
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jobber, KatiLB

Roach and emails 28 Mar 2018 01:38 #6684

  • Benefit Bolshie
  • Benefit Bolshie's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 413
  • Thank you received: 715
The following link explains how to create a Universal Jobmatch account.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/242509/response/596313/attach/4/How%20to%20set%20up%20a%20UJ%20account.pdf

As you can see before successfully completing the task of creating and registering a UJ account you will have also created a Government Gateway account.

“Once you have an email address, you can then create a Government Gateway Account or reuse an existing Government Gateway Account (your Government Gateway Account will be created immediately during the Universal Jobmatch Registration process).”

It should not be imagined for a moment that DWP are not aware of the fact that those accounts have been created.

The tick-boxes of which you speak is to deny the work coach access to your UJ account. I believe that they are still able to ascertain whether or not the UJ account exists. Possession of the email address you used would permit access by enabling the work coach to by-pass the tick-box block.
The topic has been locked.

Roach and emails 28 Mar 2018 12:02 #6687

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2042
  • Thank you received: 1922
BB wrote:
Possession of the email address you used would permit access by enabling the work coach to by-pass the tick-box block.

This is worrying if true BB. I thought by creating a UJM account and the email address used to access it only showed that the claimant had created an account but anyone except the claimant could log into it and work coaches or anyone else would see a message saying something like, "X has not allowed DWP access to this account"....or something like that.

Would be interesting to know if this has changed. Although the two `tick boxes` are still on the site giving the account owner the option to allow or disallow.
The topic has been locked.

Roach and emails 28 Mar 2018 12:25 #6689

  • The Gibbon
  • The Gibbon's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Thank you received: 59
"Possession of the email address you used would permit access by enabling the work coach to by-pass the tick-box block. "

How would that work, BB? Surely they still need passwords to access any account. Even if they could get in, most email providers will send an alert to the address's owner saying an unknown device is attempting to log in to your account and if they're trying this without the claimants permission, that would be VERY illegal. If you have a particularly horrible roach, I'd almost recommend allowing them to do it, so you can get them fired :evil:

The roach can see whether or not you've set up an account on their system, Dude. They'll be able to see you have one, but will get a message on their screen saying "claimant has denied access" or something similar. I believe they should also be able to see your email address that you used to sign up, but I'm not sure on that one. If you do have to give them an address, just give them the old one you don't use any more, or simply flat out refuse. I believe the only information they can legally demand is a physical address. Giving them a phone number or email address is up to you AFAIK, but that may only be for JSA and may be different under the dreaded UC.
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Verc

Roach and emails 28 Mar 2018 12:59 #6690

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2042
  • Thank you received: 1922
The Gibbon wrote:
Surely they still need passwords to access any account.

My thoughts too TG. Being able to look up the account is fine, but accessing it without authorisation is surely breaking their code of practice or other laws on privacy.
The topic has been locked.

Roach and emails 28 Mar 2018 15:31 #6692

  • Paul-UB40
  • Paul-UB40's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2061
  • Thank you received: 1284
One Idea Comply is to regularly/Randomly Change your Password;
That might slow them down a bit. :)
YNWA: You'll Never Walk Alone
The topic has been locked.

Roach and emails 28 Mar 2018 16:10 #6693

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2042
  • Thank you received: 1922
I think if I had to do that Paul I would just have the account inactive and never use it. After all, we can show job search evidence using other means and use better websites, so that would be my argument. Or only agree to use it on THEIR machines due to Cookies being used. So that would mean having to pay my expenses to go in and use their devices if I was to do that. I`m sure they would get fed up doing that.
The topic has been locked.

Roach and emails 28 Mar 2018 17:32 #6694

  • Benefit Bolshie
  • Benefit Bolshie's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 413
  • Thank you received: 715
Those who don’t go out much might have missed the furore in the past couple of weeks over Facebook accounts and that the companies responsible for the illegal activities and goings-on have direct and indirect links to Tory MPs. Ministers and the Tory Party generally.

I don’t believe for a minute that the DWP would have any qualms about accessing your Jobmatch account with or without your permission, legally or illegally.

I have, more than once, forgotten one or other of my Google account passwords, as well as passwords to other websites on which I was registered. When that happens I am invited to click on a pop-up that says; “Forgotten my Password” or “Forgotten your Password?” I am then invited to give the email address I used to register. Miraculously (or is it) I am reunited with my account and invited to suggest and select another password. Simples. Anyone who doubts this can try it next time they log in to any account they are registered with.

When one registers on Universal Jobmatch(UJ) initially one is asked for an email address, given a set of numbers and asked to select a password. It is impressed on us how important it is to keep address, number and password private. That address, number and password has to be stored somewhere on the system otherwise one could not access one’s own account. Who own the system owns the access keys. Who owns the system? DWP!!!!

Ever since UJ was introduced its design has been criticised because of its intrusive nature, the uses private information may be put to, and the lack of privacy and security of data it gives. Even the DWP itself publishes a disclaimer for God’s sake. Anyone would think what I’ve posted here was news or some conspiratorial revelation.

Anyone who uses Universal Jobmatch should be able to tell us what they have to do to log-on, and what happens if they forget the number or password. Would the website request email address in order to re-establish contact?

Dude states that he receives emails from, and sends emails to, his coach. How does his coach know that the email address currently used does not work on UJ unless s/he’s tried it? What good would it be to him/her if access to Dude’s account would still be denied him even if he had it?

The Gibbon asks; “How would that work, BB? Surely they still need passwords to access any account.” That’s the whole point I was trying to make, the coach is asking for the email address, not, I presume, because s/he loves the Dude, and as he says, the coach would not need the email address to establish the existence of an account.
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Warrior

Roach and emails 28 Mar 2018 18:14 #6695

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2042
  • Thank you received: 1922
BB wrote:
When one registers on Universal Jobmatch(UJ) initially one is asked for an email address, given a set of numbers and asked to select a password. It is impressed on us how important it is to keep address, number and password private. That address, number and password has to be stored somewhere on the system otherwise one could not access one’s own account. Who own the system owns the access keys. Who owns the system? DWP!!!!

And the email, number and password (presumably) are not as private as we may think they are? It`s probably common sense to think that companies like google/gmail share data with authorities when asked to provide it, but that should only come about if someone is thought to be under suspicion or breaking the law and a judge has to apply any laws that then grant access to someone`s private email or other accounts.

If I didn`t allow access to my UJM account except on days when I was signing on or asked by my coach to see it while I was there, I never had any issues with that. Although given the chance, I wouldn`t use UJM at all. However, if I blocked access by ticking the box and then logged in one day to read that a message had been left for me or I noticed anything had been `added` to my messages, I wouldn`t be very pleased and would be having words with my job centre, their manager and asking why my UJM account had been accessed without my authority. This is all about taking ownership and control.
The topic has been locked.

Roach and emails 28 Mar 2018 22:39 #6697

  • Benefit Bolshie
  • Benefit Bolshie's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 413
  • Thank you received: 715
As a user of UJ you will be familiar with what you need to do to log into your account.

I have not tried to log onto my UJ account for years. No idea what my ID number is or what my password is.

How can I access my account? Well to answer that question I have just tried it.

To cut a long story short I followed the instructions and links as they came up until I got to this:

Forgotten User ID and password

Accessing your Universal Jobmatch account

Main Content

In order to confirm the Universal Jobmatch account you want to regain access to, we need to confirm the email address that you saved in the profile of your Universal Jobmatch account.

Enter this email address below.

So there we are, they can confirm whether or not the email address I give them matches the one already saved in the profile of my account. That’s it, I’m in.


I did not go any further but that was far enough to confirm to me that my email address alone could allow me to gain access to my account. It follows that anyone else, knowing my email address could access it too.

DWP flouts the law on an industrial scale daily. Thousands, if not millions, could attest to that. Three successful tribunal hearings challenging their illegal activities, enables me to attest to it too. I am under no illusion that I would or should get special consideration should they wish to hack into my UJ account.

Even more scary is what they will be able to do with Universal Credit accounts where all sorts of personal data will be accessible to them.
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Warrior, Verc

Roach and emails 29 Mar 2018 00:51 #6701

Benefit Bolshie wrote:
I did not go any further but that was far enough to confirm to me that my email address alone could allow me to gain access to my account. It follows that anyone else, knowing my email address could access it too.
Sorry but this is utter rubbish! I set up an email address just for using UJM, which the work roaches have so they can see my UJM if I ticked the box to allow them access. Tick the box to not allow access and even if they have your email they cannot see it at all. Usually just before I sign on I allow them access then disallow as soon as my appointment is finished. A couple of times I've forgotten to do that and the work roach has said "I can't gain access to your UJM" after following the usual procedures. Once a work roach showed me how they access any UJM account. They go on to the site and see a list of names with an email next to it, then click it to gain access or not depending on if the box has been ticked...
Flotsam: People who are considered to be worthless or to have been rejected by society.
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die

Roach and emails 29 Mar 2018 09:01 #6703

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2042
  • Thank you received: 1922
BB wrote:
It follows that anyone else, knowing my email address could access it too.

Well if this was true, I`m pretty sure everyone would be worried. I`m inclined to go with what Tarquin said regarding not having access unless they specifically have the long number and the password, of which only the account holder is privy to. Otherwise what would be the point in having the access boxes on the site asking if we allow access to it or not? I understand that as long as we have opened a UJM account if requested or directed to do so, that should be enough to satisfy the condition. Like Tarquin, I always allowed my coach access on the day I signed on just to show the activity and have a chat, but when I got home, I would log in and untick the non access box again to keep my account hidden. I was never quizzed about not allowing access outwith the times I was at my job centre.

The main argument here is not allowing access at all and the UJM toolkit and DWP themselves say that allowing access is our decision, not theirs. So unless there is some legislative clause that we don`t know about, I would be inclined to believe this.
The topic has been locked.

Roach and emails 29 Mar 2018 10:49 #6707

  • Benefit Bolshie
  • Benefit Bolshie's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 413
  • Thank you received: 715
Tarquin,
As a regular user of UJM you are obviously satisfied with it. I have no problem with that.

All I was trying to describe in the post that you have taken umbrage to was the process to follow to gain access to a UJM account if a claimant (me) forgot or lost ID number and password.

I went far enough in the process to have it confirmed to me that my email address was required before I could go any further and that once they got it I could go on to gain access. The segment I quoted confirmed that to me. Other may interpret it differently and fair play to them.

I did not proceed any further because I did not want to gain access. I don’t use the thing, nor have I ever used it to apply for jobs or keep records or evidence of any kind. I do use it to job-search but one does not have to log-in or even register to do that. Most of the jobs I find to apply for require registration with other agencies anyway eg. Indeed, Reed, Concept, to mention only 3 of what looks like hundreds out there.

You have written;
“Once a work roach showed me how they access any UJM account. They go on to the site and see a list of names with an email next to it, then click it to gain access or not depending on if the box has been ticked...”

The very first sentence of this thread, in a post from El-Dude, reads;
“I got an email from the work-roach asking for the email I use for my UJM account?”

El-Dude goes on to say what he suspects is happening, what his coach is trying to do.

My little exercise, described in my rubbish post, leads me to the conclusion El-Dude reached.

If your coach can find your name and email so easily on a list it would be interesting to learn why you think El-Dude’s coach can’t do the same thing.

CoD,
Obviously everyone isn’t worried when we have members of this site rubbishing those that are. Ever since UJM was introduced there has been and concerted campaign against it. You, as an active member/campaigner on this forum being an apologist for it all along shocks me.

As another self confessed user of UJM you seem to be satisfied with it now. Again, that is for you to decide.

Earlier on this year we had a fairly lengthy discussion initiated by The Gibbon:
welfarecentral.org/index.php/forum-home/universal-jobmatch/1376-advisor-demanding-i-use-ujm?limitstart=0

You were quite vocal in that discussion in agreeing with what I and others were saying about UJM. My views have not changed. You now appear to be ‘rubbishing’ views similar to the ones you were advocating yourself 2 months ago.

I despair.

With your newly found expertise I invite you to answer the question put by El-Dude at the head of this thread. I’ve had my say.
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Catwoman, El-dudeareno

Roach and emails 29 Mar 2018 11:43 #6709

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2042
  • Thank you received: 1922
BB wrote:
With your newly found expertise

Benefit Bolshie, like other members on here I try to reply with the limited knowledge I have and that may not be up to the same standards as yours as you obviously know far more than I do and I respect your input on here for that. I don`t mind being put in my place for misleading or replying off the top of my head when I don`t truly know where to find the newest protocols. I am NOT a campaigner, I am a small voice on things that we all crave answers to but I admit that I don`t always know the answers. So if your saying that work coaches or DWP generally can secretly access people`s UJM accounts using their email address attached to it, I don`t see how I or anyone else can stop that if it is happening. No arguments or doubts will prevent it.

I only used my account for a brief while a few years ago when on JSA, but I know that Universal Job Match is being taken over by Adzuma from Monster and some changes have been made to make the site better aparently. Not that anyone would notice.
The topic has been locked.

Roach and emails 29 Mar 2018 12:15 #6713

  • Paul-UB40
  • Paul-UB40's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2061
  • Thank you received: 1284
OK Everyone;
I Think this subject has been very clearly Covered;
So I think before we start falling out with each other, We will leave it at that,
Please Start a new thread if you have any more to add; But I feel this topic has been very well covered.
YNWA: You'll Never Walk Alone
The topic has been locked.
­