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TOPIC: You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project.

You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 12 Aug 2018 18:16 #9702

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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. But people are saying it’s ‘social engineering’.

An article on The Conversation has sparked controversy among campaigners, after it revealed the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has been ‘discreetly‘ looking to change the way it pays benefit claimants.

www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/11/30/may-not-heard-dwps-latest-discreet-project-people-saying-social-engineering/

this will cause riots im allmost sure of it when pepole cant pay for there weed coz all we have is highly traceable crypto curency that we cant pay with :angry:
not to mention that you probably cant spend it in most places as many retailers will be hesitant to accept a crypto curency as they are allready its not like i can go to farmfoods and spend my bitcoin as it is allready, wtf makes them think cov coin will cary any more waight with retailers.

And do you realy want to be identified as unemployed by this sub class currency in every store you go in to ?

think we all know the answer to that one, The whole thing is one big scarey nightmare all we can hope is its enough to get all the unemployed off there ases and makeing some noise
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 13 Aug 2018 13:37 #9714

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Take special Notice of this Bit from the Link given;

Nothing new under the sun
The idea of restricting where and on what benefit claimants can spend their money is not new. A ‘welfare cards’ scheme was unveiled at the 2014 Conservative Party conference. The Independent reported that Iain Duncan Smith:

said the so-called ‘smartcard’ scheme would see benefit payments loaded onto prepaid cash cards. Transactions would be automatically stopped if people tried to buy anything on them but essentials.

The plan appears to have been shelved by the government. But this type of ‘welfare cards’ system is already in use in Australia. Originally targeted at the Aboriginal community, benefit claimants have some of their money “quarantined” and this can then only be spent with certain government-approved companies to purchase government-approved items. But critics argue the system is discriminatory and infringes human rights.


Its IN USE In Australia ( A Extreme Fascist state); Also in use Now in Parts of the USA & New Zealand; Everywhere its been brought into law has seen Crime increase,
How else are you going to get your Fags, Booze, Weed & Lottery tickets, All Barred from purchases using these Government Systems.
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 13 Aug 2018 13:57 #9715

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And there they are on the BBC news this morning stating they are going to eradicate homelessness by 2026 when it`s THEIR policies and conditionality that is CAUSING people hardship, yet they blankly refuse to accept that. The Tories won`t stop with their mad cap schemes to corral everyone they see as undeserving. No earning, not participating, not obeying. People already feel marginalised and pressured without this card scheme being something that could become a reality. Especially as the UK government are always keen to follow other nations where welfare is concerned. Except, that is, for the UBI (Universal Basic Income) because they don`t want to have everyone on a similar footing, do they.

We are slowly going back to the days of Victorian Britain and the Tories have eradicated so many elements of the welfare system with Universal Credit that now CONTROLS anyone claiming it, that we will soon be queuing for a bowl of gruel.
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 13 Aug 2018 14:03 #9716

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See also:

"Blockchain and benefits - a dangerous mix?":

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36785872
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 13 Aug 2018 16:07 #9717

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The evil Tory party want this to happen ASAP, its their dream "And do you really want to be identified as unemployed by this sub class currency in every store you go in to ?"

If those bastards could have a lamp attached to our heads with JSA Claimant they would, all about making people on 'welfare' feel desperate rejected demoralised.

People who are alcohol dependant will be hit bad by this idea as i dont see weatherpersons accepting bitcoin :lol: :evil: :whistle:

Another great screw-up in the TORYs big plan of making things 'work' hows that working out for you SSP club members :evil: :whistle:

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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 13 Aug 2018 17:24 #9718

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Quote from the BBC Technology link posted by archangel:

He sees the possibility that in the future the government could then use the technology to force people to spend benefits on certain things - to make sure, for instance that pensioners spent their winter fuel allowance on their energy bills.

Well all they need to do here is pay this £200/£300 yearly winter fuel payment to the UTILITY company the pensioner is engaged with. That way, the winter FUEL money goes straight into the account of that pensioner and the utility company ADDS it to their credit. Simple.

This already happens with a payment my mother gets each year worth £140. After it`s taxed, she gets £133 paid to the electricity company she is with. It can be paid to the gas company if you wish, but not all utility companies have signed up to it.

I don`t like the way this government use the term `experiment` all the time. Universal Credit is an ongoing roll out which has also been a learning curve that has proven disatrous for many, but okay for the few. Just goes to show though that they would have us all connected to a virtual currency via a card and auditing what we purchase given the choice. ts definatly the back door to more control, yet we barely get to hear about it because it`s all kept secret until they are ready to impliment it. GIven the opportunity, they will.
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 13 Aug 2018 19:37 #9720

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I can’t see this new method of payment running smoothly. Just look at the cock-up they made with the UC computers etc. This new method of payment will cause similar problems.
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 13 Aug 2018 21:29 #9722

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If the torys attempt this little number it will be a cock up off the scale and 100s of millions of tax payers money down the toilet yet again!

If these clowns were getting paid for successful 'workable :lol: ' ideas, they'd never get paid.


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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 14 Aug 2018 11:16 #9725

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If this new payment method means you will only be able to spend the money/bicoins on “essentials” what does that mean exactly? Who defines “essentials”? Is it food only and the rare purchase of an item of clothing? What about “saving for a rainy day”, won’t that be allowed?
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 14 Aug 2018 12:01 #9727

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“essentials”, Guess the are referring to, Liverpool Match Tickets, Booze & Weed B)
For food guess its Bows & Arrows out in the countryside.

I did once read somewhere that over 100 years ago some Cotten Plantations paid there workers tokens that they could only spend in the Plantation shop, at higher prices.
shows the Tory mindset. :angry:
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 14 Aug 2018 12:07 #9729

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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 14 Aug 2018 14:57 #9736

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I had to paste this in full here as the link to it is now defunct:

"Govcoin's co-founder Robert Kay explains why his firm is using blockchain to change the lives of benefit claimants" by Harriet Green

"When you get into this technology, you can let your imagination run wild with it. But as an entrepreneur, you have to focus. You can use a new technology to help those that can pay the most for it, or those who will benefit the most from it. It is our view that distributed ledger technology opens up opportunities to empower individuals in ways that have never been possible until now."

This is Robert Kay, the mathematician, former financier, and entrepreneur who is now chief executive of Govcoin. The firm, which launched its heavily covered pilot in May and is co-founded with serial fintech and social entrepreneur John Edge, is trialling a blockchain solution for welfare payments, in partnership with the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP).

The technology looks simple enough: claimants can – voluntarily – download an app, which enables them to create virtual jam jars and apportion money to them. Whether that’s “rent”, “gas & electric” – it’s entirely up to them. “People who are on the fringes of financial inclusion, or who are financially excluded, need a special service which can give them instant access to their benefits – three days going through the banking system may mean using a payday lender, or being thrown out of your house.”

To look at and use, “there’s nothing particularly special about the app – except that it’s designed for welfare beneficiaries and not millennial Hoxton hipsters,” explains Kay.

Underlying the app is a series of private permission nodes, including Govcoin and Npower (the former is in partnership with Npower parent company RWE, which is also an investor). Crucially, the DWP has no access to the application or the data it has, nor is the government funding any of Govcoin’s work.

Kay is keen for these points to be impressed: the DWP gets nothing out of the technology except for the tangential benefit of being able to make more accurate welfare payments, and it will, at scale, ease that distribution (every year, it pays out around £166bn of taxpayers’ money in welfare, and about £3.5bn of that is overpaid through fraud, claimant error and official error).

Govcoin’s salient purpose is to help claimants, improving ownership of identity and personal security. Its technology “is based precisely around giving power over information to the individual whose information it is, so they can determine how it is used, and by whom – as well as helping them use it directly for themselves.”

Block by block

This is why Kay chose to use blockchain technology. “Do you need blockchain to do what we’re currently doing? No, you don’t. Indeed, at a small scale, you don’t need anything sophisticated at all. But when you embark on this kind of thing, you have to have a longer-term vision in mind.”

Blockchain is very good at dealing with small transactions, and the point about having an immutable log of transactions, which exists independent of a single controlling entity, is the power it offers the individual user. Imagine, in a world of smart meters, if you could make regular energy payments – not waiting for the energy bill to arrive three months later and having to take out a loan because you’ve misjudged spend (this is where Npower comes in). Imagine if you had £50 saved one week and had the visibility to see that someone else was short and to then lend to them. What if you could monetise your own data?

It’s not helpful to know that Kay and I are sitting in a bar in the City, but what if we could club together with others to show where we all were at a given point in time, and why we were there. Would certain firms and marketers be interested? And what if these capabilities were available to society’s most marginalised?

This is what Kay thinks about every day – and he is no stranger to disruption. He got his “first appetite” for it back in the 1990s. Hired by Morgan Stanley to build a capability that would enable clients (passive fund managers) to create international index products, he turned a $20m initial investment made by the bank into a business that was subsequently sold for around $300m.

“There are some entrepreneurs who are inventors, but most create viable alternatives to existing infrastructures. I think it appeals to my mathsy side: how do you change something in a way that delivers maximum benefit?”

Having transitioned from financial services to running his own companies (Govcoin is the latest), Kay says he’s realised that, while a lot of people think they’ll be good at entrepreneurship, that’s simply not often the case.

“That’s not a criticism, but you have to deal with a level of uncertainty about everything that most people just aren’t used to. Most people can’t deal with uncertainty well. It’s the same with responsibility. If there’s no-one to say that’s good enough, to provide approbation... it’s like being a trader. You have to be prepared to make a call in the morning, and by the afternoon, or the next week, to know that you were wrong.”

Change all round

Next month, Govcoin will roll out its second trial – “it’s like the pharmaceuticals industry: phase one is ‘will people take the medicine?’, ( :woohoo: :woohoo: ) two is finding out how much benefit they get, and three is a far bigger roll out. In May, Govcoin started with just eight welfare recipients in the North West, with almost 30 ending up coming on board for the first trial. Next month will see 1,000 plus volunteers using the app for around six months. And “phase three is not necessarily full-scale – but it’s a big roll-out and we’ll be doing that in the fourth quarter of next year.”

Another group that will increasingly benefit from what Govcoin is doing is small businesses. People using the app pay directly through their phone to merchants on the Govcoin network.

“This is also about empowering the small merchant who is in constant competition with bigger players who don’t struggle with merchant acquisition fees. If you try to buy a coffee from your local cafe with a card and it has a £5 minimum spend, you’ll give your custom to Nero. We think enabling direct payments there is a socially interesting thing to do – if only because the current structure is largely responsible for the destruction of the high street.”

A problem for Govcoin is growing its system while maintaining that system’s attractiveness. Because it’s so young, network effects haven’t taken hold, and it doesn’t have hoards of merchants within its system yet. “People are often going outside our walled garden to pay. To enable them to do so, we give them a virtual debit card – and a physical one if they want it. But the challenge is that, if you make it too easy for people to operate outside your environment, you don’t attract people in.”

In a world where “all apps are free”, the firm is looking to monetise through merchants – “we also haven’t looked at advertising opportunities yet, but clearly they exist”. And while financial data is the initial focus, “it is not the only one in the longer term” – Kay is looking at how his technology can “help in other situations where current infrastructure performs less than optimally – though we are not looking at replacement. Most of all, we want to deliver a technology to those who can benefit the most from it.”
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 14 Aug 2018 15:12 #9737

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Good news!!!!

“UK sees use of blockchain as nonviable for welfare and benefits system”:

financefeeds.com/uk-sees-use-blockchain-nonviable-welfare-benefits-system/

Quote:

“In 2016, DWP ran a trial proof of concept on a small scale and the findings concluded that it was not viable due to limited take up potential and the expenses it would incur. No other companies were involved in the trial and no benefit or personal data was shared with GovCoin (DISC) on claimants”.
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 14 Aug 2018 15:34 #9738

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great news there archangel thank god we wont see that in action anytime soon but i dare say they will have another go at it at some point afterall this is the second time the topic has come up that im aware of, First those dumb smart card and no scum-coin as some of my family have started to reffer to it as :P
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You may not have heard of the DWP’s latest ‘discreet’ project. 14 Aug 2018 16:02 #9739

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It seems we will always be played as guinea pigs for any crazed up scheme some entrepreneur cooks up and DWP will grab it with both hands. Then they realise it was a bit too ambitious after throwing good money at it. Much like Universal Credit only far bigger and hungrier than these smaller initiatives. Shame UC didn`t go down the same drain as Blockchain. Or BOG chain as it should have been called. The name Blockchain sounds as if it would do just that. BLOCK claimants from being dignified members of society.
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