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TOPIC: Living Wage v Minimum wage

Living Wage v Minimum wage 05 Nov 2018 15:10 #10807

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Listening to the news today, I hear the `rea` living wage is to rise for people`s who`s employers are `signed up` to it. See table below for examples:

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Is it me.... :huh: or shouldn`t ALL employers be paying employees this higher amount per hour? Why are SOME people earning this Living wage while others try to manage on the lesser Minimum wage? Next tax year, the minimum wage will go up to £8.21p an hour. But how will that reflect other price rises like train/bus fares, utility bill rises and food prices I wonder?

These little encouragements of pennies mean nothing to people who should be paid an equal salary regardless of the work they do. I`ve just did a quick calculation:

16 hours x £8.21p = £131.36p a week or (£525.44 a month)

This amount per month should justify anyone on Universal Credit be placed in the `Light Touch` regime but as things are, that`s probably down to the discretion of work coaches. But until this hourly rate is HIGH enough for people to feel able to afford to live, we will all be reliant on UC and it`s carrot and stick mentality.
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Living Wage v Minimum wage 06 Nov 2018 12:27 #10814

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These rate would be seen as "Fantastic" by millions of Illegal Immigrants in the UK,
and for hundreds of thousands of Slaves in Britain who get paid nothing at all.

As I understand it the "Minimum Wage" is just that the Legal Minimum (Many bosses pay less and break the law)
The "Living Wage" is a Best Practice amount with no legal binding.
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Living Wage v Minimum wage 06 Nov 2018 12:58 #10815

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I`m just frustrated that ALL employers are not held to the upper limit of the `Living Wage` itself, which is basically the NMW for anyone over 25. Employers ARE breaking the law if they pay under this amount, yet there are probably too many flouting it. The world of work would `pay` if it was a level playing field to anyone who was in work, but until the government impliment this as a fully fledged rule, we are always going to see jobs advertising as `meets NMW` or words suggesting the pay rate is higher than it will actually be. This Pro Rata garble I don`t understand either? I think it means half the advertised annual/yearly wage earned? But unless pro rata is fully understood by people applying for these jobs, we could be stepping into a minefield of uncertainty.

Seems to me this `Real` Living wage is paying more because those being paid it are living in high rent areas like London. While the rest of the country seemingly can afford to keep paying rising annual rents with what they can scrape together.
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Living Wage v Minimum wage 06 Nov 2018 15:30 #10821

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The govt just think that everything they say sounds good. That a minimum or living wage exists is enough for them to massage their egos over and we should be eternally grateful for living in such a caring country. To hell with managing it efficiently, I am afraid that is sadly down to employees to challenge and risk losing their job. The reality rammed home almost daily is that they just want everybody (no matter how able) working. Strange really because politicians have a tendency to come out with comments such as you have to be prepared to start at the bottom and work your way up (like most of them personally did not btw). Thus in order to better your position surely rates of pay become extremely important and should be made as clear as possible accordingly.

Most of the jobs I used to apply for around 10 years ago were with NHS or local authority as that is for whom I did most of my voluntary work with a view to gaining paid work. An increasing amount of these posts were very low hours (as little as 10PW and involving more time travelling (no not time-travelling but you could be forgiven for thinking that)) expressed as pro rata and not in hourly rate - you had to work that out for yourself. Pro rata is essentially the proportion of what you would get if instead working at the same rate full time. The NHS also had something known as bands (a, b, c, d etc) which used to confuse me even more - these sometimes at least seemed to relate to years of service.

For example if you worked full time (35hrs pw) and your annual pay was £15k and then dropped to part time at 17.5 hrs pw you would get 7.5k at the same rate. I aren't sure how the taxation works out though. For a while I did two voluntary posts as practice for ideally landing two part time jobs to get my hours up as near to if not full time or even beyond that because it was full time or nothing and there were hardly even any full time posts.

Of equal relevance as you point out is rent and there was a woman in the BBC Question Time audience last Thursday asking basically what is going to be done now that the rate of her wage is exactly the same as her rent.

It is a mess and UC alone is not going to fix it nor seemingly are either MW or LW. So basically the country is being run by clueless imbeciles ignoring one wake up call after another but still possessing an endless supply of soundbites.
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Living Wage v Minimum wage 06 Nov 2018 16:10 #10823

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Verc wrote: It is a mess and UC alone is not going to fix it nor seemingly are either MW or LW. So basically the country is being run by clueless imbeciles ignoring one wake up call after another but still possessing an endless supply of soundbites

Soundbites indeed Verc. They stand there in parliament taking questions about UC for example and say anything to deter the fact that they are introducing a system of full control over anyone who dares to claim it. The pro-rata thing, that`s exactly how I understood it too Verc as being `half` the full time rate, but it does sound to me to be a mathematical brick wall unless you are able to take the hourly rate and calculate it with the understanding of what pro-rata actually means. A `proportion` of what we would get? Just baffles me!

I can`t see people earning NMW jobs being fully able to manage any better in the future unless prices drop significantly and the way things are going, especially with dear Brexit looming, I can see prices going up, rather than coming down.
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Living Wage v Minimum wage 06 Nov 2018 16:55 #10831

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Well quite, comply, the full time rate itself probably isn't going to be enough now so part time is only going to be for most folk as a second wage/earner behind a reasonably good wage. Proportion can be 1 tenth or 9 tenths and still bloody irrelevant. Proportion of hours equals proportion of the wage if you don't do the full hours you cannot have all the wage...blahsy blahsy blah blah. It seems to be more a case of bad form to enquire or express hourly rate in the public sector imho.

No matter how bad things get they can always now trot out the line that there is now a record number of people in work whilst conveniently forgetting that there are also record numbers of people squeezed onto our tiny island with less housing to go around. The Great in Britain doesn't seem to relate to the quality at all and maybe it never did. Math: ratio of serfs to productivity and resulting profit/loss.
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Living Wage v Minimum wage 06 Nov 2018 18:13 #10837

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Absolutely Verc. We little people are going to hell in a handcart if we are left picking at the bones of low paid jobs and uncertainty. It`s just as well we are (as you say) `veterans! at this and are able to cling onto our sanity but only just. When I look on jobsites now for a quick browse and type in my postcode, the jobs that appear would as well be on the other side of the world as far as I`m concerned as many are full time, skilled,or not jobs I could do anyway. So the scenario for me looking for jobs under the UC conditionality regime would be a bloody nightmare. I would find it difficult to find two jobs a week to apply for and those would probably be applied for through sheer desperation or worry that I didn`t find anything to record in my job search. But that`s the reality. Not the smokescreen they relay to the general public of how rosy the jobs market is for people like ourselves who would struggle to even get an interview.

Around here, it`s all care homes, bakery worker, admin, retail, warehouse, hotels, jobs in areas where they will say, `a car would be an advantage` meaning, don`t bother to apply if you don`t have a car....

Being on ESA and looking into the world of job search is like looking into the pit of hell. I tried ir a few years ago when I was on JSA and after three full months, I was just about mentally done in.
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Living Wage v Minimum wage 08 Nov 2018 09:31 #10860

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We should all be very Happy we have a Minimum Wage at all; Once we have Quit the EU, with no my EEC Rules to hold the Torys back,
Just watch them.................
Scrap the Minimum wage Completely
They will tell us its to "Help the Economy" and be "Good for Britain"
Oh Yer, Good for the Rich, So what about us ? :angry:
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