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TOPIC: Why we must resist the 'work cure'.

Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 27 Mar 2017 21:02 #180

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From Blacktriangle:
THE new secretary of state for work and pensions has just reconfirmed to the Conservative conference his party’s mantra that work is good for you, and renewed the party’s commitment to use the combined forces of the DWP and department of health to ensure more sick and disabled people benefit from its therapeutic qualities.

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2016/11/01/dr-sarah-glynn-why-we-must-resist-the-work-cure/
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 27 Mar 2017 21:16 #182

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Sounds like a horrific science fiction society .... and it's here now. :S
Toads - Philip Larkin
Why should I let the toad work, Squat on my life?
Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork And drive the brute off?
Six days of the week it soils,With its sickening poison -
Just for paying a few bills! That's out of proportion...
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 11:05 #210

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If 'workless-ness' causes 'illness' why are the rich not 'ill'?

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 15:26 #222

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This:

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In Scotland, our powers that be are supposed to be making changes to the way Scotland deals with some benefits and the mandation of courses by JCPlus to all be voluntary. I`m not holding my breath, but if they manage to create a fairer system up here, I can only see it as being a welcome relief. I can`t see sanctions being done away with for job seeking agreements because as long as Westminster yield the whip, sanctions will probably remain part of the system, but if work placements, training courses and anything else they imply is to be totally up to the claimant to accept or not, this would be a winner. Not only does it give us choice, but for anyone who is job seeking, it means they can do so without fearing being throw onto some mandatory scheme which wastes valuable job searching time. Updating skills should be up to US to choose, not them. If we are obliging the jobseeking rules by looking for work, that`s all we should have to do to justify being paid. Not being made to feel controlled by a system we don`t want to be in.
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 15:54 #226

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Ah but they don't want you to be happy in your work though do they? They refused to renew my CSCS card, paid for it myself. They want an ever interchanging procession of pickers and packers in warehouses (no matter what your skills, and experience) whilst the people doing the skilled work have to be imported from Eastern Europe because they do it for less money. I work in construction and you would not believe the amount of Poles, Romanians, Lithuanians and Bulgarians working on the sites. Meanwhile that money goes back to their home countries out of the UK economy for good. Genius in it's stupidity!
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 18:09 #249

Rokerite wrote:
I work in construction and you would not believe the amount of Poles, Romanians, Lithuanians and Bulgarians working on the sites. Meanwhile that money goes back to their home countries out of the UK economy for good.

I do believe you, well I believe the stats at approx 200,000 EU workers in the building industry if that's what you meant.

Not sure how you actually know where their earnings go though. The polish people I know like us have to invest all they earn in keeping head above water here.

Personally I think people should be allowed to do what they will with their own earnings anyway. If you see that as such a problem, what do you suggest might be done about it?

I am more concerned about the corporates extracting money from the uk on an industrial scale by exploiting us with underpayment, overcharging for their products and tax evasion

Can't find any stats on the earnings of the 5.5 million brits living abroad or where their money goes.
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 18:24 #253

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I suppose it`s human nature to seek employment wherever you can find it if your own country fails you. The UK isn`t the land of milk and honey it`s made out to be, but given the earnings rates are higher here than they would be in the eastern block, it`s no wonder they see the UK as their best option. The fairness of it all isn`t right though because someone running a household here in the UK with high overheads will be undercut by someone sharing accommodation and perhaps not having the same outgoings. I`m very open to anyone earning a living because lets face it, it`s a dog eat dog society. But I suppose that`s how the UK works now with the rules on immigration and inviting anyone in who is willing to work, but not all of them will be declaring it. Should we bother? No, because we brits do the same if we can get away with it!!!! :lol:
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 18:25 #255

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I am inferring that DWP/Jobcentreplus are pushing skilled British people into unskilled jobs. The shortfall is then taken up by migrant workers from Eastern Europe, who live together in multiple occupancy housing cutting down living costs. Their pay here is twice what it is back home, where the cost of living is half what it is here. Am not slagging migrants off for sending most of their pay home for their families, I am saying it is economic madness that this money is leaving the British economy when there are skilled people in this country not available due to working for poverty pay in a factory/warehouse and having to have their pay topped up with taxpayer funded tax credits/housing benefit.
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 18:26 #256

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Sort of the point I was making too regarding the living costs.
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 18:37 #259

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I don't read facts and figures. I speak to the Polish/Romanians etc when we work together so this is first hand. They do all live together to cut down costs. And yes they are only doing what British bricklayers etc did in the 80's when they went to Germany. Regarding corporate tax avoidance, yes it stinks, but when we have got Theresa May practically begging them to come here instead of Republic of Ireland to avoid tax what do you expect. As the much maligned Ed Milliband said at the last general election, vote Liberal you get David Cameron, vote SNP you get David Cameron, vote UKIP you get David Cameron. These are the Tories, a party funded by big business what do you expect?
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 18:46 #261

Rokerite wrote:
I don't read facts and figures. I speak to the Polish/Romanians etc when we work together so this is first hand. They do all live together to cut down costs. And yes they are only doing what British bricklayers etc did in the 80's when they went to Germany.


Would you prefer that workers were not allowed to move around. Or were restricted on how they could spend their money?
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 18:52 #262

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I would prefer British jobs to go to British workers yes, are you going to throw the racist word at me now? As for British people working abroad that is up to them. You on the one hand despise companies exploiting "globalisation" for tax avoidance yet have no qualms about the influx of foreign workers bringing down wages. You can't have it all ways....
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 19:07 #264

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I believe the article is arguing against the gov't stance that work is a 'cure'. The gov't are conflating 'good' work and 'bad' work as if there is no difference and all work is 'good for health' per se. The article challenges this; good work (good pay and conditions) is obviously beneficial. Bad work (low pay and poor conditions) is not necessarily beneficial and could actually be detrimental to health. It is disingenuous for the gov't not to acknowledge this :pinch:

The JC try to 'shoehorn' people into inappropriate jobs and do nothing to help them into satisfying jobs / training which reflect their skills and aptitudes.

The article has really got nothing to do with migrant workers. It is about criticising the 'work-as-a -health-outcome' dogma.

The discussion about migrants is a separate topic (feel free to start another thread).
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 19:18 #266

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I was just giving an example of economic ineptitude by the government within my experience in the workplace. Stating the obvious really as politicians are omnipotent in their ineptitude. For example pushing people into zero hours/ temporary work has actually pushed up the housing benefit bill up, despite the bedroom tax/ benefit cap supposedly bringing it down. If a medical professional considers that you are not fit for work then ipso facto you are not fit for work, that is to say that no, "work" cannot cure you in a sentence.
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 19:28 #267

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Rokerite wrote:
I was just giving an example of economic ineptitude by the government within my experience in the workplace. Stating the obvious really as politicians are omnopotent in their ineptitude. For example pushing people into zero hours/ temporary work has actually pushed up the housing benefit bill up, despite the bedroom tax/ benefit cap supposedly bringing it down. As for work being a "cure" Arbeit Macht Frei as Adolf Hitler once said. If a medical professional considers that you are not fit for work then ipso facto you are not fit for work, that is to say that no, "work" cannot cure you in a sentence.

I agree with you R. If work could cure anything then we would need far fewer hospitals. It makes the gov't disingenuity look like a sick joke :sick:
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 19:29 #268

Sorry F. I can only respond to posts where I find them.

Rokerite wrote:
I would prefer British jobs to go to British workers yes, are you going to throw the racist word at me now? As for British people working abroad that is up to them. You on the one hand despise companies exploiting "globalisation" for tax avoidance yet have no qualms about the influx of foreign workers bringing down wages. You can't have it all ways....

I don't know if you are a racist or not. I do know that you use the language of racists though.

The same sort as I have been listening to since the 60's, only then it was directed mostly at :ohmy: and :ohmy: .

Your suggestion that there is some equivalence between corporate exploitation and the free movement of labour is ridiculous. As is your suggestion that there is some contradiction in my attitude towards them.

If you wish to discuss it further you might as has been suggested start another thread. Call it something like "Up the Brits" or "UKIP Central". I am sure I will find it.
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 19:39 #270

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No criticism of you SL, or anyone else. I just wanted to steer the topic back towards the subject discussed in the article. ;)
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 19:43 #272

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I do not vote UKIP any more than I vote Tory, I vote Labour for your information, you used the derogatory terms not me. Calling people Romanian when they come from Romania is not racist. If you can have freedom of movement for people, then why can you not have freedom of movement for business? Freedom of movement is just that. The fact that it is to avoid paying corporation tax is neither here nor there, freedom of movement applies to corporations as well as people. The people that suffer from both of these "freedoms" are the plebs, the "surplus labour" who either can't get a job or are having their right to social security as a result of their unemployment whittled away as a result.
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 20:26 #274

Rokerite wrote:
I do not vote UKIP any more than I vote Tory, I vote Labour for your information, you used the derogatory terms not me. Calling people Romanian when they come from Romania is not racist. If you can have freedom of movement for people, then why can you not have freedom of movement for business? Freedom of movement is just that. The fact that it is to avoid paying corporation tax is neither here nor there, freedom of movement applies to corporations as well as people. The people that suffer from both of these "freedoms" are the plebs, the "surplus labour" who either can't get a job or are having their right to social security as a result of their unemployment whittled away as a result.

Not interested in which particular branch of the establishment you favour.

But what is it you actually want ? Brit jobs for brits... brit capital for brits? No free movement of capital or labour? Nationalistic isolationism and self sufficiency.

Or do you perhaps wish to give capital superior status over people and allow it freedoms you wish to deny people?
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Why we must resist the 'work cure'. 28 Mar 2017 20:31 #275

X-M wrote:
No criticism of you SL, or anyone else. I just wanted to steer the topic back towards the subject discussed in the article. ;)

Sorry F, i agree it is very ot.

Perhaps a mod might move the offending posts?

I have made 2 very small edits to 2 posts
Paul
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