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TOPIC: DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants'

DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 04 Jun 2018 19:00 #8371

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DWP Minister: "Use of the Find a job website is not compulsory for claimants of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) or Universal Credit (UC)"
More Westminster Q & As 'written answers and questions' on findajob.dwp.gov.uk
(Issues covered: Compulsion, JSA, Universal Credit, GDPR and ‘full time, part time, flexible hours or a zero-hours contract’)

'Yes Minister'!

Anyone seeking to negotiate not having 'Find a Job' added to a JSA or UC CC, may with to print out the full Q & A,and a DWP Minister is the ultimate boss of all DWP Staff (Civil Servants). More on this at welfarecentral.org/index.php/forum-home/benefits-discussion/1720-should-you-renegotiate-your-cc-when-faj-comes-in


Apologies, meant to put this thread on 'find a job' topic

ADMIN: No worries moved to correct section
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 04 Jun 2018 19:12 #8373

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Quote from the above link - If a claimant creates an account using a jobsite other than Find a job, it must be one that is deemed to be suitable by the Work Coach.”

So, lets all be clear to make SURE we choose a good job/website to open our account with that will pass the scrutiny test. B)

The above seems to make things crystal clear that jobseekers do NOT need to open a FAJ account. No matter how many times they ask or force us to do so. I take it this also means under obligation to do so via a UC CC direction?
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 04 Jun 2018 19:18 #8374

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[1] "Whether Indeed or Total Jobs are appropriate websites will depend on the
type of work each claimant is looking for and the vacancies displayed on
those sites. Therefore, there is no recorded information.
However, paragraph5 of Annex 3 of the instructions referred to above explain the considerations
made when determining if a claimant has undertaken enough work search
activity."
Source: FOI 2388 reply of 4 June 2018 www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/485274/response/1167976/attach/html/3/2388.pdf.html
Cited in mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2018/06/04/dwp-minister-use-of-the-find-a-job-website-is-not-compulsory-for-claimants-of-jobseekers-allowance-jsa-or-universal-credit-uc/
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 04 Jun 2018 19:22 #8377

comply or die wrote:
So, lets all be clear to make SURE we choose a good job/website to open our account with that will pass the scrutiny test.
My argument, should it arise, is that I'm already registered with well established jobsites such as Indeed or CV-Library, so why should a relatively new site such as FaJ take precedence over all overs?
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 05 Jun 2018 08:43 #8387

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My thoughts exactly Tarquin. We know from reading some early reports from members that work coaches either choose to ignore FOI requests and other up to date conversations into such matters, or they have their own action plan for anyone refusing to open or use FAJ, saying - "If we can spend the same time looking for a job as we do looking up regulations we would have a job".....

If DWP didn`t care about jobseekers using FAJ, they wouldn`t have bothered trying when there are other, similar jobsites already doing the same job? So this in itself makes one wonder why FAJ was born. Is it just another attempt to use against vulnerable individuals who won`t know any better? Or given the replies from DWP thus far seem to suggest it`s not mandatory to use OR open an account?

This little quote from Mr Zola`s link:

However, paragraph5 of Annex 3 of the instructions referred to above explain the considerations
made when determining if a claimant has undertaken enough work search
activity."

Could be used to suggest a claimant requires a FAJ account because `they have not done enough to suggest eough work search".....so will therefor me given a direction to open and use FAJ under their CC activities. This is the caveate they could use to justify their actions.
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 05 Jun 2018 12:11 #8399

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comply or die wrote:
Is it just another attempt to use against vulnerable individuals who won`t know any better?

That will very likely be somewhere in the DWP thinking behind FaJ. Just because they can't mandate doesn't mean they can't ask in their assuming routine little way. Most people signing on for the first time in their lives haven't got a clue how they are being lined up for future punishment within the coralling mentality Job Coaches are trained to administer in very basic form without having to think too deeply themselves.
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 05 Jun 2018 12:42 #8402

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You’re absolutely right there Verk.

Many of those self same claimants who may, through ignorance of the system or apathy, find themselves wondering ere long how the hell they got themselves in the hole they find themselves in and asking on this Forum, or ones like it, how they can extricate themselves from it.
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 05 Jun 2018 13:02 #8404

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Resistance is futile, close Welfare Central forthwith

UC is far more complex to resist. Discuss

Online claims process to prompt FAJ or other jobs site registration?

UC phone helpline to have scripts to promote registration FAJ and other jobsites?

Day one conditionality to have FAJ or other jobsite account, prior to first claim interview at Jobcentre?

How to avoid FAJ, when under UC's 35 hour a week jobsearch expectation?

Fact: FAJ is far less intrusive than Jobmatch, as such what pragmatic approaches can be made to FAJ for claimants?

UC: Requirement to accept a claimant commitment
"Cooling off period

Second Opinion
A claimant may request a second opinion on the detail and reasonableness of
work availability and work search requirements they have been set. Only one
request is allowed for every new or updated commitment.
This is only relevant to claimants subject to intensive conditionality.
Where a second opinion review means the commitment is amended, the original
date of claim should stand. Where the second opinion review does not amend
the commitment, the claimant should accept the original version and the date of
claim becomes the date of acceptance.

Each time a commitment is updated with new requirements the claimant will have
the ability to ask for a review of their requirements.
This will involve a different person interviewing the claimant to review the
commitment that the claimant has not accepted.
If they decide that the requirements originally set were reasonable,
the claim will be ended and the claimant will need to submit a new claim."
data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2017-0556/23_CC_-_Requirement_to_accept_a_claimant_commitment__v4.0.pdf
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 05 Jun 2018 13:50 #8407

So. I went to sign on this morning and all has changed. My usual work roach is apparently on "sick leave" and they're not sure when she'll return. I don't believe that for a second, I think she's been moved to another area due to her being rather dozy at the best of times! When my previous jobcentre was closed down most of the staff were transferred to where I am now, but all on a separate floor, now it appears they've had a reshuffle as I recognised a few faces from the last place on the floor where I usually sign on. The roach I saw today I'd never had seen before, she's just here "temporarily" apparently.

As usual, when sat waiting to be called I try to listen in to any conversations going on between roach and claimant. The one I caught most was a particularly nasty piece of work who I recognised from my last jobcentre and had a couple of run-ins before. She's your typical bullying condescending roach we see far too much of these days and the first thing I heard her utter to the poor victim sat before her was: "You NEED to register with Find a Job", to which the claimant acquiesced. I felt that little bit of rage build inside of me and so wanted to butt in and tell her that she is a fecking liar, but of course that would just end with me being chucked out. I felt almost sad I wasn't seeing her next because I would have felt the need to correct her had she tried the same bullshit. Not that the one I saw today didn't need correcting....

As I've stated before, I use(d) UJM just for recording my jobsearch activities, and nothing else. I never applied for jobs on there (which any roach could see on my UJM as jobs applied for showed as zilch), and this was accepted long ago as I used other jobsites. She booked my next appointment, with yet another roach I'm unfamiliar with, and didn't mention FaJ. So, I said to her that as UJM will be dead at my next appointment I will bring printouts of jobs applied for on my email account. This is when she brought up FaJ, asking if I'd registered. I told her I had, I told her I wasn't impressed with it so far, and will stick with my usual jobsites.

She then mentioned that FaJ would be better as there's an option like on UJM to put in manually your jobsearch activity, and DWP staff can access the account. So... I had to correct her on this misinformation she was giving me, pointing out there isn't that option like on UJM, and also how would she access my account unless she had my password? She quickly changed tack and said I could provide screenshots of my activity on FaJ. I stated that wasn't the best way to provide my jobsearch activity because it won't show jobs I've applied for on Indeed, CV-Library etc, just my activity on that one particular site. I don't think she was "trained" for the response she got from me, so I said once again that next time I sign on I will provide a printout of jobs applied for on my email account, which should be acceptable. There was an audible sigh as she said "OK, that's fine" and I was on my way.
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 05 Jun 2018 17:07 #8410

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Tarquin wrote: She quickly changed tack and said I could provide screenshots of my activity on FaJ.

I wouldn`t want to do this either as it seems easier to copy & paste website addresses from the job sites we visit and save them in gmail in their own folder and all the email replies we generate if we apply for a job and then show these as proof, while also making paper copies just as back up should our computer pull a wobbly!
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 05 Jun 2018 18:48 #8412

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They love telling lies, these work coaches know full well what is or isn't mandatory, it shouldn't be up to us to correct them.
They should be telling us the full facts not just what they want us to know.

Also I think the floor manager loves a hard faced argumentative wc with a fog horn mouth ,who creates tension and such an atmosphere. One wrong word and they start ranting at you.
Every jobcentre seems to have at least two per room.
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DWP Minister: 'Find a job website not compulsory for JSA or UC claimants' 06 Jun 2018 08:00 #8420

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There is a man who attends my drop in charity who uses the same job centre as I do. He tells me there is a female work coach they call the `Black Widow`! :lol: I told him that she`s not had the pleasure of meeting me yet. :evil:
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