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TOPIC: DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”?

DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 12 Jun 2018 18:54 #8620

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"Find out more about how to manage and delete cookies.
You can still use this service with cookies turned off. "
findajob.dwp.gov.uk/cookies.html#session-and-authentication

Very different from the far more extensive use of cookies on Jobmatch
jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/Account/CookiesAbout.aspx?md=1

My own initial thoughts at
mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2018/06/12/dwp-says-find-a-job-findajob-dwp-gov-uk-can-be-used-with-cookies-turned-off/
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 13 Jun 2018 07:35 #8625

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Hi Frank. Just had a quick read through of the link (it`s early so head isn`t on straight!) so am I right in thinking that the FAJ site is saying, someone cannot create an account or upload a CV without first accepting their authenticated cookies? They seem to be saying that the site wouldn`t be able to display or find/match our details otherwise?

Also, will this be the excuse work coaches use for disallowing the use of other jobsites if they think jobseekers are avoiding FAJ? They say in one sentence that FAJ isn`t compulsory, but then say that work coaches may not think other jobsites are relevent to the matching of jobs a claimant may be looking for?

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Once again, they cause doubt in the minds of people who may want to swerve FAJ, although creating a profile on that site and keeping it totally private to our own computer may find some middle ground where a work coach may keep on about FAJ if they know someone is just refusing to go near it for the sake of being difficult, but we know that`s not the case, it`s about freedom of choice.
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 13 Jun 2018 07:57 #8626

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Hi FrankZola,

This is all good, but are wondering how we do this in local joke shops as in mine; they have done something to the browser config and no way to delete cookies etc or change any other setting in ie.I go in that place to do a "job search" and their stupid donkey speed pc's never working .

I am one of those nice people who wont be using their silly find a joke website but others may feel pressured into doing so; even though this bullying of people is wrong.To appease the morons at joke shop i just use the search function in faj once a week and use ccleaner to deal with all cookies on my PC after.I dont log in and use this website as a rule of thumb so to speak.

Its amazing that after doing 35 hours joke search they then want people to do more while in joke shop :whistle: It's like their pc's are specifically geared to find people 'special types of work :whistle: '
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 13 Jun 2018 11:07 #8629

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comply or die wrote:
Also, will this be the excuse work coaches use for disallowing the use of other jobsites if they think jobseekers are avoiding FAJ? They say in one sentence that FAJ isn`t compulsory, but then say that work coaches may not think other jobsites are relevent to the matching of jobs a claimant may be looking for?

Once again, they cause doubt in the minds of people who may want to swerve FAJ, although creating a profile on that site and keeping it totally private to our own computer may find some middle ground where a work coach may keep on about FAJ if they know someone is just refusing to go near it for the sake of being difficult, but we know that`s not the case, it`s about freedom of choice.

Looks like they are bending over backwards to find an excuse to get people to use FaJ. Hope they don't ignore what that Work and Pensions minister said about us not having to use FaJ. I don't know what to believe any more. Let's hope Labour gets in in 2020. If not we may have to look for a better country to live in.
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 13 Jun 2018 13:48 #8632

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archangel wrote: I don't know what to believe any more.

It`s a bit like a ping-pong game. DWP say one thing, work coach tells you something else. We then produce a print out of said document that provides the relevant regulations, work coach tells us we should be looking for a job and not worrying about what MP`s say! At this point, we either stand our ground and press the issue, or wait for a response that will either be in agreement and accepted, or they will put their black cap on and start ranting about giving a direction to do so. Can`t bloody win...
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 13 Jun 2018 14:43 #8637

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Like someone here said a few months ago its all a clever plan to confuse us and keep us guessing. Either that or they are genuinely idiots who don’t know what they are doing. But I somehow doubt it.
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 13 Jun 2018 15:27 #8638

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Cookies: subscriber or user?

For Jobmatch and prior to the GDPR and the Data Protection Act (2018) the DWP did mandate creating an account, a profile and uploading a CV for JSA via a Jobseeker Direction (JSD) and they could then only mandate it's use on a Jobcentre computer. Many argued that the DWP needed claimant consent to accept Cookies on ANY computer. However, under the Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations "consent should be obtained from the subscriber or user" and understand the DWP considered itself to be the "subscriber", (for Jobcentre internet access devices/computers) so claimant consent not needed.

Crux

The crux for claimants is the basis, evidence and process a 'coach' follows to deem another Jobsite is "suitable" or not and records they keep of such.

Suitable?


Which of the following Jobsites is most "suitable"?

"1,146,660Jobs in UK" on www.adzuna.co.uk/jobs/uk

"165,976 Jobs in UK" on findajob.dwp.gov.uk/search?q=&w=


Review

The claimant always has the right to request a review when a 'coach' suggests adding FAJ to a JSA/CC (variation) and the 'coach' does not consider the claimants alternative jobsite(s) are more appropriate or "suitable"

"Whether Indeed or Total Jobs are appropriate websites will depend on the
type of work each claimant is looking for and the vacancies displayed on
those sites.” FOI 2388 reply of 4 June 2018

Standard JSA Claimant Commitment

"My rights
I know if there is a disagreement about my Claimant Commitment, I can ask for this to be reviewed...."
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/405670/response/980045/attach/html/4/CC%20O18%20E15.pdf.html
Discussed at welfarecentral.org/index.php/forum-home/benefits-discussion/1720-should-you-renegotiate-your-cc-when-faj-comes-in?start=40#8527

"If a claimant creates an account using a jobsite other than Find a job, it must be one that is deemed to be suitable by the Work Coach.”"
"deemed"? How, criteria and on what basis?
"deemed" ‘act as judge’?
"unfettered discretion"? Not!
welfarecentral.org/index.php/forum-home/benefits-discussion/1720-should-you-renegotiate-your-cc-when-faj-comes-in?start=40#8542

I do not know the current status of cookies and FAJ, but ICO can be asked. Except for these thoughts.
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 13 Jun 2018 16:25 #8640

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I`ve always argued (with myself!) that quality is better than quantity, so just taking a job site that has MORE job adds listed, won`t mean that job site is better than one that has fewer jobs listed. What I`m suggesting is, looking at, comparing, recording data and presenting that as evidence of quality over quantity, but mix and match them too to get the best from the ones you feel (a) are easiest to navigate and (b) act like a jobseeker, THINK like a work coach! I take that line from an old saying in the betting industry which goes, "Bet like a PRO, think like a BOOKIE!"...meaning, make sure you don`t lose every bet you place by being naïve and study what`s in front of you.


End of the day, it depends what types of jobs people are looking for, but nearly all (but a few choice sites) will list easy to apply for jobs, temporary, part time and dare I say it, zero hours contracts/contracts generally. Try and find the ones that that do the same as FAJ and take some screen shots to show their layouts.
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 13 Jun 2018 17:21 #8642

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FAJ is far less intrusive than Jobmatch and knowing the actual FAJ choices and constraints help to make informed choices, including pragmatic ones.

3,344 Retail Jobs in Manchester
www.adzuna.co.uk/jobs/search?q=Retail&w=Manchester

266 Retail jobs in Manchester
findajob.dwp.gov.uk/search?q=Retail&w=Manchester
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 13 Jun 2018 19:01 #8647

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That's a very good example of matching like-with-like and no work coach could justify refusing Adzuna here over FAJ based on those numbers.
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 14 Nov 2018 12:59 #11058

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www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/525846/response/1256171/attach/html/3/Find%20a%20Job%20or%20other%20jobsites%20and%20Work%20Services%20Platform.pdf.html

Can someone enlighten me please about `accepting cookies` on our OWN devices if we chose to use (or were mandated to use) FAJ? See here from the link I have posted above:

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We have looked at how we can browse FAJ with cookies `turned off`, but what if a work coach suggested two jobs on FAJ that we had to apply for, this means we have to (a) have an account to do so and (b) accept the sites cookies. If we have chosen just to browse FAJ and have accounts with OTHER jobsites (which we are fully entitled to do) this means we would have to use IAD computers in the job centre or other outlets to avoid cookies being downloaded onto our own devices at home?

The main point of my question is, what ARE these FAJ cookies and why should we be wary of them (or some of them?) What do these cookies actually DO and are they so bad that we should be avoiding them or are they merely part of the site experience of using the site? Or are they trackable spying cookies that trace everything else we do on our devices too? Can we `clear cookies` in settings or by using CCleaner after each use? Is this a workaround or am I being nieve?

I think it`s important that we all understand this because work coaches are TOLD to make sure we are given a cookie factsheet before agreeing to use FAJ on our home computers, why? If these cookies were unharmful or did things we didn`t agree with, why then issue this cookies factsheet? Or is it just that they require us to know that the site uses cookies that perform certain tasks for the benefit of the user? Or are they meaning `be aware` that you are accepting evil cookies that you may not want downloading onto your home device?
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 14 Nov 2018 13:35 #11060

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Hope this helps you learn a bit about what cookies can do.

privacy.net/stop-cookies-tracking/
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 14 Nov 2018 14:59 #11061

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Thanks for the link Finnster. Understanding the `types` of cookie and what they do is one thing, but given that sites like Find a Job probably use tracking cookies and a few others that could identify our IP address (even though this changes periodically) just reading through that page gives me the impression that using our OWN devices is chancy. But I`m still wondering if I`m just being a worry-wart, or if I`m looking at this as a more serious capacity.

What I suggested earlier that going into settings and clearing cookies, the link states this:

First, let’s briefly cover the main types of cookies: session cookies and persistent cookies. Whenever you go into your browser settings and clear your cookies, you’re deleting the persistent cookies.

But clearing cookies this way or when closing the browser will NOT delete other types of cookie? So this is what concerns me. Not so much that a site like FAJ might download these other types of cookie, but the fact that when I`d finished using the site,I couldn`t be sure ALL of those cookies it used and placed onto my laptop are not cleared by using CCleaner or settings.

So what`s the best option here? Tell the work coach we have a home computer but because we are not prepared to accept their cookie policy with FAJ, we will only attend and use the job centre computers or those in a Library? Because we are all expected to open a FAJ account regardless of whether we want to USE that site or not, unlike UJM, they can`t ask for access to our accounts anyway, but if we did, we couldn`t sign into our account when on a home computer because we know the site would implode it`s cookies on us.
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 14 Nov 2018 15:06 #11062

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In reply Comply;
I Clear all Cookies at the end of every session im on line [ Most are blocked by VPN in the first place;]
if I still have any concern I run my Full Virus Scan, Followed by CCleaner, that gets them. B)
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 14 Nov 2018 15:07 #11063

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Under my Windows 10 settings I can bring up this box and choose which cookies to block:

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If I chose `Block ALL Cookies` or `Third party` cookies on the FAJ site, what is likely to happen? Would I get an onscreen message telling me I couldn`t use the site because I had cookies `turned off`? I`m guessing that`s exactly what would happen because in order to use FAJ, I think I`ve read that you must accept it`s cookies to `sign in` or to apply for any of the jobs?
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 14 Nov 2018 15:12 #11064

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I would select Block 3rd Party Cookies, and see how it goes if I was in your position Comply.
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 14 Nov 2018 15:20 #11065

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Thanks Paul. Still getting my head around it all to be honest. I found this on the GOV website regarding FAJ and cookies from May this year:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/find-a-job-and-other-websites-what-you-need-to-know-about-cookies/find-a-job-and-other-websites-what-you-need-to-know-about-cookies

I suppose what we are all wondering is, what privacy are we exposing here? Are these cookies only used for the purposes of information gathering, like number of people visiting the site, what our job preferences are, how long we visit the site daily/weekly etc....and if so, does it mean our accounts can be (a) identified by DWP and (b) used against us if we are flagged up as not using the account often enough? Although given we are not giving any access to our FAJ accounts to work coaches anyway, I`m not sure whether worrying about cookies is something we should all be bothered with anyway, or mainly because the cookies applied by FAJ are directly linked to DWP and not like other jobsites who will also use cookies, but are not? That`s the two differences here.
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 17 Nov 2018 20:11 #11213

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Use a decent VPN and their stuffed.

cleaner will delete all cookies after every session.You can also set it to delete to MOD standards for full browsing deletion on your PC for anyone who is as paranoid as me :)


Once you are logged out of FAJ just run ccleaner and delete all cookies or just choose under settings the one you want to remove Comply.


"Some cookies store a lot more information, which some people consider private and sensitive. That information includes which websites you visited after looking at a previous site. Again, this could used to make your life easier, and it almost always used to deliver targeted adverts. But you may reasonably consider such tracking as you browse the web to be an invasion of privacy."

Because of whats mentioned in red when using your own pc and logging into FAJ be sure to give your pc the "clear all cookies, web history treatment first." A good way for dwp to have a nose at what other types of job sites or any-other we may have been looking at.

www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/internet/how-delete-cookies-browsing-history-3218163/
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 18 Nov 2018 09:37 #11220

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jobber, when I open settings, it just clears `cookies and saved websites` only? It doesn`t say `clear all cookies`? In my cookies area (posted snip earlier) I can turn off certain cookies, but I would rather just be able to clear ALL cookies after a browsing session before AND after using any GOV site. Where in Windows 10 can I clear ALL cookies? Or does CCleaner do that? I know some cookies placed on a PC can run for up to 125 days?! :dry: I want them gone the SAME day I`ve been signed into the site and not hiding in my system somewhere. But is this even possible?

I don`t know anything about VPN`s and doubt I would use one to be honest. I can see the benefits of doing so, but for a medium level tech person like myself, I`m not sure I would be delving into that with no knowledge of it.
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DWP says: ‘Find A Job’ can be used with “cookies turned off”? 18 Nov 2018 10:26 #11222

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Excellent post there Jobber The link given,

www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/internet/how-delete-cookies-browsing-history-3218163/

Answers all questions in a simple easy to understand way, Follow that Comply and you cannot go wrong

I Clear All Cookies and Browsing history after every on-Line session, There is often little recorded history on both,
More so if my VPN is up and running, or I have been running via tor,
Dump Google as a search Engine and Use DuckDuckGo for a better security level. B)

tor qpdownload.com/tor-browser/

DuckDuckGo duckduckgo.com/app?post=1&atb=v140-7a_
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