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TOPIC: Jobcentre

Jobcentre 03 Jul 2018 17:34 #9104

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My work coach said she would put me up for a job when I saw her today. She showed me a list of roles in two different places, none of which were suitable for me. I picked the best of a bad bunch, but the deal is that I will be training with a guaranteed interview at the end. Surely that's the cart before the horse! It sounds like yet another way of getting us to do unpaid work.
What does everyone else think?
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Jobcentre 03 Jul 2018 18:30 #9106

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Hi Dizzy. I take it your coach has matched your skills to this list? Are the `jobs` on this list work you wanted to look at and train for?

You wrote: She showed me a list of roles in two different places, none of which were suitable for me.

This does sound like a trap and not to notify you about this `list` to give you time to respond to it. Not that they even think about that though as all they are interested in are `helping customers into work` no matter what that work is. Sounds very much like show her the list and never mind if the jobs are not what she wants as they will train her and offer an interview at the end. Sounds like those work trial escapades that ran before? Hopefully someone with more inside knowledge of this can give you some advice.
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Jobcentre 04 Jul 2018 11:15 #9119

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Hi Comply, no, none of the jobs listed matched my skills or experience, I think it's just my wc ticking boxes and hitting targets. To me it looks like the company wanting to make use of free labour for the holiday season. I checked on their careers website and none of the listed jobs were on there. I've never before had training just for the chance of getting an interview, and none of the jobs would have needed much training!
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Jobcentre 04 Jul 2018 11:43 #9121

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Do you have an idea of the type of work/training you want Dizzy (meaning, do you already have any experience in a certain field?) and would rather continue looking/advancing with that, or are you at the stage where job centre are saying you need to be doing X or Y to be able to do Z?

If a work coach was to say to me I will mandate you to a three month course training in retail, I would say don`t bother because it`s a sector that I would never grasp (maths not great and wouldn`t manage all the multi-tasking they have to do) and if coach became grumbled, I would stand my ground and make a case for staying on my own line of thought and using my age, health status and long work gap history to fight my corner. also suggesting that retail is a dying duck with the high street vanishing at a rate of knots and those still working in retail are already preparing a switch to working in hospitality, call centres and other sectors like care.

Just an example though.
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Jobcentre 04 Jul 2018 13:03 #9122

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To be honest all I really want is my pension!
I like you, have a long gap in my work history and due to health problems, don't really have a lot of options open to me other than light shop or office work. What I was being offered were neither of these. What bugs me is the way these things are sprung on you without any time to think. Anyway I did explain my limited capability to do physical work and she seemed to back off a bit. Hopefully I won't hear any more about it. I won't be doing unpaid work for a business that's for sure. I did cwp for six months, no paid job at the end, though I do, do some voluntary work for a charity.
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Jobcentre 04 Jul 2018 13:23 #9123

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The guaranteed interview malarkey.is just a way for them to get free labor from you, after said weeks you might get an interview but no chance of a job. then they will start all other again with some other poor sole. ask if it voluntary work if it is, decline.
that's what i did in a similar situation to yours,but then my roach came out with yes but you need something up to date on your cv.
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Jobcentre 04 Jul 2018 13:25 #9124

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Dizzy wrote: I like you, have a long gap in my work history and due to health problems, don't really have a lot of options open to me

Totally understand now Dizzy, sorry I forget that some members are like myself and not school leavers! All the more important to state why some of the `helpful` advice they are pushing you into is not looking at your situation and if you have some restrictions with your health, those should be taken into account and not just overlooked. What they ask us to do should be reasonable and if there is something in the small print that is NOT reasonable, be that the tasks involved with this training or other placement, it`s vital these are brought to her attention and explained.

Dizzy wrote: Anyway I did explain my limited capability to do physical work and she seemed to back off a bit.

Are your limitations recorded on your Claimant Commitment Dizzy? For example, if you have difficulties with physical activity (like me) you should have a word with your GP and they can usually supply a fit note stating what your problems are, your coach then applies what is on the fit note to your CC relating to any jobs you apply for taking into ccount what your problems are. So it might be worth doing this to give you a wee bit of protection against hits like this where you could question them in relation to your recorded restrictions. Many JSA and UC claimants don`t know they can restrict the work they are looking for even when in the full work related category of UC. You don`t need to be claiming ESA, although puting a claim in for ESA can sometimes be necessary if your health is not great and lessens your ability to carry out activities the way you used to, be those mental,physical or both combined.

It`s still a bit of a grey area where asking for health problems to be recorded on a CC when someone is not found to have LCW (Limited Capability for Work/Work Related Activity) under UC, but if your circumstances require your problems to be taken into account, I would make sure these are properly noted on your CC.

Here is an example snip:

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Jobcentre 04 Jul 2018 13:35 #9125

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i am also looking forward to my pension 61 years old with health issues, looking for 16 hours a week maximum, you would think they would back off because of age and health issues. but they don't.
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Jobcentre 04 Jul 2018 16:00 #9126

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Dizzy and London 123, are you both still on JSA or Universal Credit? Reducing your `expected hours` to what YOU feel you can manage should be your focus here. I still have a good 14 or so years yet before I can hope to draw a pension and hoping I don`t become a new `waspi woman` should they decide I can keep looking for work for another five years after that. :angry:

When we hit a certain age and know we are beyond reach of 98% of employers, we have to be realistic and play the game. Because that`s what it is, a game. Dizzy has been pounced upon here saying: What bugs me is the way these things are sprung on you without any time to think.

They always do this though Dizzy and surprise us with sudden gestures without having the time to retaliate. We automatically believe that we MUST go or be punished. Which is why I emphasise the case for looking closely at your own circumstances and applying them to these idiotic schemes and thinking about what you are being asked to do, how often and does it take into account the health problems you have? Standing a lot, sitting a lot, going up and down stairs, multi-tasking, meeting with others, managing tasks, etc....
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Jobcentre 04 Jul 2018 16:24 #9127

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I'm still on jsa. Just two years off retirement.
I'll make sure I'm ready with my reasons not to do: long hours, shiftwork, warehouse work etc, in the future Comply, I know my gp will back me up. Some of the work suggested to me is laughable, I don't think people believe me who haven't been through it, but it's no joke for us, though I try to keep a sense of humour!
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Jobcentre 04 Jul 2018 17:17 #9128

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Just keep in the moment Dizzy and you will get to that golden moment of being a pensioner! B) It`s soul destroying knowing that I have many years yet to put up with this system that is hell bent on controlling us. I`m on ESA just now and don`t intend to give it up easily, even though I`ve had to go through some tough mental fights to do so. It definitely wears you down, but worth fighting for when we know we are in a situation where we can`t possibly get, keep and stay in a job when we (and they) know full well we would find that very difficult.
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Jobcentre 04 Jul 2018 20:21 #9130

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i too am on jsa. failed my esa assessment,but have to use a walking stick after a motorcycle accident left me with metal rods and pins in my right leg. so i got them to agree to put 16 hours down max on my work agreement,so any stupid courses they mention to me i say i can only attend 16 hours. of course they then look at my agreement surprised. my last course was looking after elderly residents at a community center,16 hours a week ,my work record is all warehouse work. i stuck it an hour and left. when asked why i walked out i said i was not qualified to that sort of work, so they made me sign on daily for 2 weeks.
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Jobcentre 05 Jul 2018 08:35 #9136

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london wrote: my last course was looking after elderly residents at a community center,16 hours a week ,my work record is all warehouse work. i stuck it an hour and left.

It`s not for everyone this kind of work. I was googling something similar the other day for `how do I get into a care job without qualifications` and I was surprised to read that people DON`T always require qualifications for such jobs and that all they need to show are skills like being a good listener, be able to think in your feet, a cheery demeanour, punctuality, patience, willingness to learn and kindness/empathy. These are the qualities and skills you need to convince a care employer that you can do this work without having done any SVQ or other such tests.

I couldn`t work as a carer in a care home capacity because I`m not physically fit anyway, but it can be a testing environment too and demanding/draining. Something I just can`t muster these days having chronic pain myself.

london, I don`t know why your work coach isn`t thinking about office jobs, data control, easy jobs that suit your needs rather than the list she gave you. I would have said to her `so how do those fit my criteria`? Have you done any cross referencing on them of your abilities and whether this `training` they offer is going to advance your chances of actually getting a job in that area? Is it even where you want to be? It could also be a stop-gap to fill a gap on your CV and nothing more.
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Jobcentre 05 Jul 2018 09:40 #9137

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i don't want any job, as i cant stand for more than a few minutes before my leg starts aching. just want an early retirement {i wish) my last adviser asked me to go home and think of some jobs i could do. i could not think of any.
my failed ESA letter says the job center should find me a job tailored to my health issues,
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Jobcentre 05 Jul 2018 11:04 #9139

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I'm in a similar situation to you London123 in that no one would employ us even if we got to the interview stage. Not going to bang on about my health conditions but they fluctuate and i can go months when i think i have no chance of getting a job. Just getting to the job centre is hard work. I sweat alot due to various reasons so in a interview id be a puddle of piss. Ha ha i dont want the frigging job anyway as down the line ill be taking time off to rest due to chronic pain. it's very much a mental battle when you cant convince yourself you are fit for work so how you are meant to convince a employer ill never no.
I'm on the list waiting to do CBT so be interested to see how that goes. I'm not holding my breath as it's simple on good days i'm quite happy and on bad days i'm a nightmare. Currently im in a good spell and id say the weather plays a massive part for me so i can exercise to make me feel good with endorphins etc.
Also i desperately need to loose weight. Hard work as you get older.
My advice is see the DEA if you have not already to make sure the claiment commitment is how you want it. In the end it can get so crunched down that most jobs are not ticking the commitement. I also look for 16hrs a week but 4 hrs a day max so always state this in cover letters as i'm not looking to waste anyones time or money. Luckily all my advisors have been very good. Prob pitty me as i turn up a scruff on purpose and like you we have had work snatched away form us and our CV's highlight that we are not scared of hard work just no longer able to. Obviously iv'e seen the odd jobsworth when my advisor is away but being on and off JSA for 10 yrs + and probably being on another 20+ yrs i no the game pretty well by now.
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Jobcentre 05 Jul 2018 11:07 #9140

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london wrote: my failed ESA letter says the job center should find me a job tailored to my health issues,

Mine (although I appealed my fit for work decision) said I was capable of `some` work even though they recognised I had health problems. Funny that, they refuse us the same UC amount as JSA (£73.10p a week) while on ESA, but take that away to worsen our health by throwing us back to the wolves. When on ESA, people can do `permitted work` or even volunteer, which is a better situation to be in rather than applying for jobs that are just not there, or are not interested in us due to our age, work gap history or that we carry the baggage of being unreliable.

london, maybe take your letter in and say - `it states here that you (work coach) will help me to find a job that is TAILORED to my needs`? And discuss what exactly your needs ARE. Write down what you have problems doing in a list and look back at your ESA claim. Mobility (this isn`t a walking test remember) and the other descriptors you meet (even though DWP say otherwise) and make sure your NEEDS are being met.
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Jobcentre 05 Jul 2018 12:30 #9144

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Dizzy wrote:
My work coach said she would put me up for a job when I saw her today. She showed me a list of roles in two different places, none of which were suitable for me. I picked the best of a bad bunch, but the deal is that I will be training with a guaranteed interview at the end. Surely that's the cart before the horse! It sounds like yet another way of getting us to do unpaid work.
What does everyone else think?


In your original post you said that your coach was going to put you up for a job. Did you take from this comment that you would be offered the chance of a proper, legitimate job that you would be capable of doing?

She showed you a list ‘roles’ in two different places. Were those ‘roles’ proper, legitimate jobs? Or was this part of some DWP scheme? If so, who is actually running the scheme or in charge of the training?

Were you told what exactly those ‘roles’ involved, eg. Hours per week/day? How long the ‘role’ or training, lasts for? What training are you going to be given and what are you are expected to do? Will the job, if it materialises, be in the same place?

Were you given any details of any of the above in writing?

Was it a mandatory requirement to accept one of the ‘roles’ proffered?
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Jobcentre 05 Jul 2018 12:32 #9145

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TW35 wrote: My advice is see the DEA if you have not already to make sure the claiment commitment is how you want it. In the end it can get so crunched down that most jobs are not ticking the commitement. I also look for 16hrs a week but 4 hrs a day max so always state this in cover letters as i'm not looking to waste anyones time or money.

Most job centres should have a disability employment adviser although they are a bit redundant these days. Not too sure if my job centre has one but will find out the next time I speak to the work coach I`m seeing at the moment. But TW is right about making sure those of us who are found `fit for work` even after an unsuccessful appeal make sure that any Claimant Commitment agreement is tailored to suit US and not setting us up to fail on tasks we won`t be able to meet. Do this by still presenting evidence of your health problems either by a fit note from your GP or using the evidence you presented for claiming ESA because the fact remains that the health problems don`t go away just because we have been found fit for work.
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Jobcentre 05 Jul 2018 12:34 #9146

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BB makes some good points there Dizzy. Take note.
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Jobcentre 05 Jul 2018 13:54 #9147

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No, BB she didn't have a clue what the roles entailed, I had to explain them to her! Both companies are legitimate businesses, but I know of other people that have given it a go. They worked for a month whilst training, had the said interview and surprise, surprise were unsuccessful. It was about this time last year, so it does seem like it's free summer cover. Saves them paying for temporary staff. I've made up my mind not to do it, the roles were both too heavy physically and the shifts too long. I think this is just a way for the jc to get rid of us old uns for a few weeks, they know we won't be taken on.
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