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TOPIC: Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc

Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc 13 Jul 2018 15:54 #9280

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Looking at all the successful appeals against jobcentre staff who misinterpret DWP rules and guidelines, makes me wonder if the real enemy are jobcentre staff and not necessarily the DWP—at least regarding the rules and guidelines, which seem to me to have sufficient caveats in them to keep jobcentre staff on the straight and narrow. It seems to me that it is jobcentre staff ignoring these rules that gets people sanctioned. The rules in and of themselves seem plausibly fair, given the authoritarian and parsimonious nature of this Tory government.

Or where the rules created by the previous Labour government? Anyone know?
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Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc 13 Jul 2018 16:24 #9284

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You make a good point archangel. Work coaches possibly do fall foul of their own guidelines at times either knowingly or un-knowingly, depending on how much training they have had or have understood, but it`s the claimants that end up with the sanction due to misinformation or blatant ignorance.

archangel wrote: which seem to me to have sufficient caveats in them to keep jobcentre staff on the straight and narrow.

They do indeed have caveats and we often find them in DWP guidance, regulations or FOI requests. So either work coaches just forget much of what this means, or they just have`nt had the time to look up the correct actions to take, but it`s a bloated system of the game of wits mostly.
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Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc 13 Jul 2018 18:51 #9294

archangel wrote:
It seems to me that it is jobcentre staff ignoring these rules that gets people sanctioned.
The problem is that the majority of claimants have no idea about the rules and regulations, and do everything that is asked of them in fear of being sanctioned. JCP staff are aware of this and will continue doing so. Only when they're challenged do they take a different approach.

Whenever possible I've pointed out to other claimants that certain tasks they've been told to do are not compulsory they still do, so as not to "cause trouble" and wouldn't even think of questioning what they are required to do. The perfect example was when I was signing on a few weeks back overhearing a work roach telling her claimant that he had to use FaJ site and created his account for him so that she had access to his password. If I ever see this man again I will tell him he should change his password and explain why, though I won't be surprised if he says he won't. I've overheard so many times when waiting to sign on work roaches making up their own rules, but for some reason I've never had an appointment with any of these staff. Strange that....
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Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc 13 Jul 2018 19:19 #9295

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It`s a real shame our welfare system has now become a cat and mouse game rather than a straightforward alliance between claimant and work coach. The approach should be one like we have with a GP, where we can have a conversation about what we need and what WE think we need to be doing to help ourselves rather than being told what to do for the sake of protecting our income and quality of life, which for what it is could be said to be the bare minimum. Long termers like myself who have signed on JSA, been on Income Support, then back to JSA then onto ESA, JSA and back again to ESA so learn that longevity survival is key. Even moreso these days with Universal Credit creeping in like a slow tide.

Tarquin, I have seen such people who can`t understand computers, but have told me their work coach have told them that they MUST learn because they will be expected to do so. One guy I know is on ESA for mental health problems and admitted to me that he just can`t do it and when he has attended short computer courses by the job centre, the people supposed to be teaching these skills just didn`t have the quality time to spend with each person and he left with very little clue as to how to proceed.

It`s abhorrent that DWP are now telling people with no degree of learning that they MUST use a computer to claim UC now or to get help to do so.
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Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc 14 Jul 2018 09:13 #9302

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Archangel Id say its new rules every time a new circus comes to town aka:gov :)

I feel it's the DWP who give instructions to the joke club to be awkward bastards as and when they feel they can.

I've heard many conversations within my joke shop, them picking on what they feel are 'weak claimants unaware of their rights and dwp regulations etc' . :evil:


Well done Tarquin, its not easy dealing with these morons at joke shop but keep in our own heads thats exactly what they are, morons of a government department clowns from the main circus and just like lions need to be tamed.

Hope that guy takes your advice on passwords etc Tarquin.
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Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc 14 Jul 2018 11:46 #9306

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jobber wrote:


I feel it's the DWP who give instructions to the joke club to be awkward bastards as and when they feel they can.

I've heard many conversations within my joke shop, them picking on what they feel are 'weak claimants unaware of their rights and dwp regulations etc' . :evil:


You might be right, but I feel that if this is so, then why can’t the government just change the rules in their favour rather than having to get jobcentre staff to break them. That would be the simplest thing to do. And would give the government “plausible deniability” should anyone accuse them of influencing jobcentre staff.
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Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc 14 Jul 2018 11:52 #9307

Even though there are so many successful appeals against jobcentre scum/staff, they're undoubtedly a small minority compared to those who do not appeal against being unlawfully sanctioned... If more claimants were aware of sites such as Welfare Central then perhaps there'd be a change. The problem is getting the word out!

Maybe we need someone suitably talented to come up with a leaflet advertising the virtues of this site. Then we could print them up and hand them to claimants as we sit waiting to sign on, or subtly leave a few leaflets laying around.... Though if you're caught no doubt the jobcentre will probably try to get you forcibly removed for being a "troublemaker"!
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Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc 14 Jul 2018 13:37 #9309

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At my jobcentre there is a table with all sorts of leaflets on. The security guards stand out of sight of this table (around the corner from it, as it is near the exit) so anyone could leave leaflets there without being seen. Chances are that if someone left leaflets for this site there, at least a few people would take some before jobcentre staff became aware (if ever) of what’s going on.
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Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc 14 Jul 2018 20:09 #9312

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Anyway and Anything to get the message across; Thousands of people are Dying NOW. Get the Message out by whatever means !

NB: More Ideas "Coming Soon" to our "Tactics" Section

welfarecentral.org/index.php/forum-home/tactics
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Discrepancy between JCP staff and DWP rules etc 15 Jul 2018 08:06 #9315

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Will be passing the forum address on to a guy at my drop in place tomorrow as he appreciates anything I can advise him on re-joke centre plus. Telling him he will be able to access some useful information from like-minded people.
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