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TOPIC: Daily signing.

Daily signing. 06 Nov 2018 16:20 #10824

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More jobcentre woes! I was told that I will be daily signing until I get a job. Also I will need to to a months unpaid work for work experience, I've already done the 6 months CWP.
My so called work coach told me "I'd been lucky getting away with it so far" which I objected to, as she shouldn't be using that kind of aggressive language to me. So out comes the manager, she tries to be all conciliatory, saying lets keep it positive and we're here to help you.
Now I've got to go to the jobcentre tomorrow to see her! To be honest the thought of sitting in the jc for 2 hours, 5 days a week feels me with despair. I won't even be able to do my charity shop job. The entire meeting was done in a way to make me feel bad. Suffered with anxiety and depression most of my life I'm trying not to let them get to me, but it's very hard.
We need a general election to get this Tory shower out. They are trying to kill us off!
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Daily signing. 06 Nov 2018 16:31 #10827

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:( Dizzy, this really is why people are feeling controlled and yet, nobody has raised this little problem in parliament regarding the bullying of claimants under the guise of `help`. They will do as they damn well please it seems.

First off, if you are being told to attend your job centre everyday, they should be paying your travel costs. That`s numero uno. Secondly, you have rights as to what you agree to show like any access to FAJ or asking for a mobile phone number. If they don`t know you have a mobile DON`T tell them.

When did you do your CWP? Do you still have the letters/documents from that? I would say if this was done within the last two years, you could use it as evidence against more unpaid work. They will no doubt have a nice list of companies waiting to take you on, especially with the festive season approaching and companies looking for sheep.

Dizzy wrote: I was told that I will be daily signing until I get a job

Are you in your 50`s/60`s Dizzy? If you are, I would dispute this hard. I would want to see regulations that say a claimant can be `directed` or `mandated` to attend a job centre until they found a job. I know they can action people to attend daily for X amount of time, but this sounds ridiculous.
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Daily signing. 06 Nov 2018 16:50 #10830

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Found this:
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/daily_signing_every_13_weeks

There may be more up to date FOI`s on this Dizzy but found this in the meantime. It wasn`t fully answered by DWP FOI team but click on the bottom link for their explanation.
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Daily signing. 06 Nov 2018 17:17 #10832

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It doesn't matter which jc or wc you see, they all treat claimants like dirt. Looking down their nose as if they are so great they are working.
Makes you sick especially when you hear adverts on the radio saying your work coach is there to support you and offer you tailored support.
When I signed on last week two work coaches were having the loudest conversation with all the gory details about when they had a baby the language was a disgrace. So brazen they didn't care who overheard.
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Daily signing. 06 Nov 2018 17:52 #10834

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I feel the best defence we have in terms of surviving these onslaughts is to `subtly` use any FOI`s or DWP `regs` that we can in relation to what`s going on with our claim personally, to try to argue the case that yes, we will attend and yes, we will do X and Y BUT, only in accordance with the guidelines and/or regulations SET by DWP. So if DWP are stating one thing and Mr coach is saying another, you have a case to argue.

Work Coaches have authority to set demands in any shape or form they think is `reasonable`, but remember too that anything they task us to do MUST be set under rules that say that task has to be set to achieve an outcome and if that outcome is not then achieved, it has not proved to be helpful to that person.

Dizzy, we all want to see government change and we can only hope it`s not too far away.
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Daily signing. 06 Nov 2018 18:11 #10836

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We live in hope Comply! I've written down some of the things my wc said to me and also about her threatening attitude. I'm going to request a different wc too, as I don't feel I would be comfortable being "coached" by her anymore.
Now I've had to to calm down a bit, it does seem ridiculous to tell me I'll be daily signing until I get a job, considering l'm a 64 year old gran, no one's rushing to employ me!
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Daily signing. 06 Nov 2018 18:20 #10838

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Dizzy wrote: considering l'm a 64 year old gran, no one's rushing to employ me!

B) Exactly Dizzy, so enjoy the ride and smile when you walk in. Play the game and apply for jobs. You won`t get one until any interview has been done anyway so if you look anything like Nora Batty, your home and dry!!! That`s a joke, by the way! :oops:

My mum knows a local man who is about 64 and he`s being treated exactly the same Dizzy and I cannot get my head around their mentality. He goes to the library each day to do his job search, attended numerous `work placements` and he told my mother recently he`s being sent on ANOTHER one shortly. :angry:

I wonder if the press realise what`s going on here? That the over 60`s are being pressured into these same conditions as a 20 year old would be? yet the 20 year old is finding it hard enough to find work, never mind someone who is a few years from retirement! It`s an absolute JOKE.
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 10:50 #10841

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Dizzy, according to the FOI (see below as supplied by @Comply) : This draconian arrangement, is only 13 week at the JCP. So there is light at the end of the tunnel mate. ;)

  1. The Daily WSR period must last no more than 13 weeks.”

  2. The Daily WSR(Work Search Reviews ) period can end before 13 weeks if the work coach considers it appropriate to do so.’
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/383672/response/932083/attach/html/3/4d.Daily%20Work%20Search%20Reviews%20B.pdf.html

Do not let the behaviour of others destroy your inner peace.
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 11:01 #10842

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I'll be informing the manager of that when I have to go in there today. Thanks all for your help, massive relief to know that I've not got to sign daily until I retire!
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 11:10 #10843

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Hi Dizzy,

Be sure to start to compile any /all medical evidence present and historic to make sure these numpties at joke shop start to play ball.

If you feel this is all having a detrimental impact on your overall mental health go see DP and request a letter to re confirm what you have suffered from in the past and now currently due to their mis treatment management of your particular situation.They need to and will be made to take this on board and apply measures appropriately.

These bunch of planks feel their above the law well its been proved many time s their not.

Comply is also right about main stream press need this brought to their attention as its a major issue concern.A great way for the SSP club to guarantee certain people of a certain age dont make state pension.What a saving i hear them say. :whistle: :evil:

Keep us all updated Dizzy.


Dizzy note this,if your phone is a smart phone use the recorder app inside your pocket or hide inside a folder with mic in good position usually works a treat.

Do not trust a word they say and ask for everything to be sent out in writing not just some chit chat as their experts at that crap and you will end up going around and around in circles and having the same stupid dead chit chats with others in joke centre and are sure you dont want that.

Could also do it the old fashion way and take pen and note pad ,ask for another app and ask for that to be recorded and you will want a copy for your own records. :)

Good luck
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 11:38 #10844

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Dizzy wrote: massive relief to know that I've not got to sign daily until I retire!

It`s a worrying trend we are seeing now that even people who will have no aspects of ever gaining employment ever again are being forced to still apply for jobs they know they have no real prospects of getting. An upper tribunal judge I read about relating to such matters stated these facts, for people who have been away from the world of work for 10+ years and the reality is, those individuals (like myself) would be faced with ongoing knock backs and possible worsening of mental health as a result.

We all know what they are trying to pull here and it`s all about getting people into work no matter the cost. We MUST stand up for ourselves because all we are to the government statistically are non productive expendable numbers.

Dizzy, come back to this thread on what they say about only attending for a maximum of no more than 13 weeks, according to that FOI. If they say no, we can have you coming in longer than that, ask to see the relevant (IN WRITTING) welfare act regulation that tells them this. That link was one I found yesterday, but went looking for something more present and couldn`t find anything even on the DWP Freedom of Information site, but chances are it will be out there for us to find.

Edited to add: Some more interesting reading on the `Daily Signing` stuff from people who have been assigned to it here:

www.katebelgrave.com/2015/10/more-about-the-dwps-totally-pointless-you-must-attend-the-jobcentre-daily-routines/
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 11:59 #10845

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The thing that gets me, every time I go in the Joke-Centre. I get told how overwork these work-roaches :evil: are, and they have trouble with their caseloads? Yet they can find time to have claimants daily signing? :blink:
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 12:10 #10846

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See here also and scroll down to "Allocation to Daily Work Search"
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/201658/response/517413/attach/3/HtW%20guidance%20v1%204%202014%2004%2024.pdf

If you are told to do these daily sign on`s, they MUST agree your times off attendance four weeks in advance and not just tell you one day when you should go in the next.

This link was found inside the link I posted earlier. These daily attendances seem to have been an ongoing venture since around 2014 and some kind of trap for people on JSA who may be working `cash in hand` or just as another way of messing up people`s weekly routines.

I also note this from the above section:
52. Once allocated to Daily WSR a claimant is not eligible for referral to Community Work Placement (CWP). There are no exceptions to this so it is essential that Work Coaches consider the claimant’s needs effectively

There you go Dizzy!

Dizzy wrote earlier: I won't even be able to do my charity shop job

You still SHOULD be able to do this because it states IN this link that Voluntary work or Training courses MUST be taken into account. So if going to your job centre daily would mean you losing your Volunteering placement, you could fight that. See below:

 if a claimant is undertaking voluntary work or training, which may help them gain employment, take this into account, including their travelling time, when scheduling Daily WSR times,
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 12:25 #10847

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The DWP is afraid of MPs. Any time you feel bullied and intimidate say you will visit your MP to complain. Work coaches want to keep their job and not anger their manager.
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 13:35 #10849

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Good point JJ. My constituency MP is SNP. B) So I know he has clout. Thankfully, I`ve never had to ask for his or his office`s assistance, but it`s good to know they are there, just incase.
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 15:17 #10852

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JJ wrote:
The DWP is afraid of MPs. Any time you feel bullied and intimidate say you will visit your MP to complain. Work coaches want to keep their job and not anger their manager.

JJ is totally right, once an MP gets involved they will ALL have to take note;even more so if an MP feels you are being mis-treated out side of the 'systems regulations etc.' :)

Joke shop managers sometimes like to hope people will just go away and not pursue a formal complaints procedure :whistle: And in my experience, its worth following it bit by bit until they really have to take notice. Any expense it costs to start this process keep all bills etc as you will be billing them for it at a later date. :lol: :evil:
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 16:28 #10853

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Just got back from the meeting. It turns out that the woman I was given to believe was the manager is an employment advisor. I sat with her for an hour while she rang various different companies to see if there was anything suitable for me and that was it. Obviously my work coach was trying scare tactics. I asked who do I see about changing wc and the adviser said she'd have a word with the manager for me.
So I'm going to just have to wait and see what happens next. I may well have to start daily signing soon, but it's all down to my vile work coach. Anyway I know it can't be for more than 13 weeks! I'll keep you posted, but my next signing as far as I'm concerned is in 2 weeks.
Thanks everyone for your support it really helped.
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 18:36 #10854

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From those FOI requests daily signing seems to be punitive and limited to:

“claimants who need additional support with their jobsearch activities”

“claimants who have reasonable levels of work experience but may lack the level
of motivation required to seek out employment opportunities or pursue options for
improving their employment prospects”

“claimants who have a history of poor timekeeping in terms of attending interviews
at the Jobcentre”

As far as I can tell it doesn’t apply universally to all claimants (yet).

Dizzy can you tell us the context that you have been put on daily signings? Do the roaches see you as having been “difficult” in their terms?
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Daily signing. 07 Nov 2018 19:32 #10855

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No, I don't think I've been difficult. I've gone on all their courses, never been late, always applied for suitable jobs and kept the evidence to show them. I think it's just that I've not managed to get a job. I've been unemployed for 3 years and I suppose they're hoping to intimidate me enough to make me sign off. I wish I could, but it's my only income.
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Daily signing. 08 Nov 2018 12:35 #10869

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Then I would see your MP as others here have said.

It sounds like you are being bullied into finding a job. And your being 64 is way too old for any employer to consider you for a job. Most are ageist.

You should also inform your local newspaper and go on your local BBC radio phone-in show. Most BBC local radio stations have one.
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