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TOPIC: Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year

Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 17 Jul 2017 15:08 #3675

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skwawkbox.org/2017/07/17/disabled-claimants-told-2-yrs-to-get-job-or-be-sanctioned-for-a-year/
The government is pressing ahead with the roll-out of its Universal Credit (UC) replacement to the benefits system in spite of huge delays and problems – and continuing problems so ingrained that foodbank use has increased sharply in every area where is has been implemented.

UC contains a draconian set of provisions, including a ‘Claimant Commitment’ (CC) – a set of imposed requirements to which the claimant has no right of appeal whatever. As the government’s guidance on CCs states:

There is no right of appeal if a claimant refuses to accept their Claimant Commitment and the requirements that have been set out in it.

A JCP adviser – who might be incompetent, inexperienced, bitter, have a personality clash with the claimant or just simply be having a bad day – is the final arbiter of whether a CC is reasonable and achievable, and even a patently bad decision cannot be appealed for a higher opinion.

And if a claimant refuses to sign?

If the claimant still refuses to accept their Claimant Commitment then he or she will no longer be entitled to claim Universal Credit.

All this is bad enough – inhumane enough. But there is worse. An activist contacted the SKWAWKBOX to highlight an even more sinister aspect to UC and the CC:

Nobody is mentioning the JSA equivalent time out clause, 24 months to find a job or you are sanctioned for one year.

That is 100% across the board sanctioning. Basically, 24 months to find a job or you are on the streets with zero support.

UC calls this conditionality, a claimant under full conditionality has a set time to find work if they are unsuccessful then they are sanctioned for 1 year. It’s one of the most dangerous aspects of UC, that has been pretty much swept under the carpet.

A fixed time to find a job – or a one-year sanction? A sanction is the immediate and complete removal of support. Anyone who has seen Ken Loach’s superb I, Daniel Blake knows how devastating this is and what the consequences can be.

And the most hideous aspect of this hideous system is that it applies to disabled people. Two years to find work or you’re cut off from support.

It’s hard to imagine that this could be true, that anyone could be so lacking in humanity as to devise such a system, let alone enforce it. But it is true. A DWP insider told the SKWAWKBOX:

Yes, it’s absolutely true and absolutely appalling.

A claimant can either be placed in the WRAG (work-related activity group) or SG (support group), depending on what the healthcare professional has put in their report as part of the Work Capability Assessment (WCS).

However, if neither the WRAG or SG have been satisfied then the claimant is considered fit for work on the grounds of no Limited Capability for Work (LCW) then they must either appeal or claim Jobseekers’ Allowance (JSA) (or remain claiming UC if they are claiming this benefit).

The “JSA equivalent” is the WRAG – people who have been assessed as disabled but still capable of working.

A claimant used to be paid an extra WRAG premium of around £26 a week, but this was axed from 3 April 2017 – but for new claimants only who claim from this date, existing claimants are exempt – for now.

As the WRAG is no longer payable, the claimant will only receive the JSA rate of £73.10 a week (or £102.50 for a couple claim). This is because the WRAG means the claimant must attend the Jobcentre periodically and see their Work Coach to get them back into work. Failure to comply at any time will result in a sanction. SG claimants are exempt and are not required to attend the Jobcentre – but that could be about to change.

But your source is correct. If WRAG claimants haven’t found work within two years, under the new rules they will be sanctioned for a year.

Blanket, deadline-based sanctioning of 100% of the people put into a group by a medical assessment that is widely considered arbitrary.

This frankly evil aspect of Universal Credit needs to be widely understood – and universally opposed – and a government that has this kind of cruelty at its heart cannot be allowed to continue in office.
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 17 Jul 2017 15:44 #3676

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I wondered how long it would be before this "Bad" Government brought this condition in:
It could be WORSE: :ohmy: ; In the USA YOU GET 6 MONTHS Then Nothing, Zero.
Been a Few Places; Done a Few Things
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 17 Jul 2017 16:59 #3677

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Reading Sandella`s link, I`m thinking....how are the government going to explain why they would sanction someone for a whole year who is in the WRAG (working related group) if they are not (under the rules of WRAG) expected to look for, or take a job while receiving their WRAG award? Why isn`t this information not plastered all over the media and Labour exposing it?

I am currently in the WRAG of ESA and know I will be re-assessed possibly next year sometime and will face the same fight I had the last time because the ESA system is not there to help anybody, it`s set up to fail anyone daring to stay on it for longer than they need to be. So if you are lucky enough to be placed into the Support Group, you are not going to have the same conditions placed upon you. Over the coming months, it is something I will be closely looking at because the WRAG awards I have had over the past four years or so have been on the edge and I still feel vulnerable to persecution as most ESA claimants are.

I have been in touch with the voluntary sector recently about doing a few hours a month with a library service, but I haven`t been through the checks yet but once that is done, I can proceed if the position suits me and doesn`t jeopardise my ESA claim, which is the one thing that worries me.

Yet if I sit on my backside and choose to do nothing, I know I will be seen as a target to be hounded. Which is totally wrong and contradicts what being on ESA is about. Some people only claim ESA for a short time due to having surgery or short term problems. But people like me who have ongoing, long term issues which won`t/can`t be helped, should be placed into the Support Group until such a time we ARE well enough to cope with job searching and working. But all that seems to be happening is more and more pressure on people who are already stressed to the hilt with more scare stories about being sanctioned for longer periods of time when we are doing all we can (by the current rules) to comply within reason to demands.

Having a Claimant Commitment only applies to anyone actually looking for work, unless UC changes that? I have my CC from last year while I was claiming JSA between appealing, but once I was back on ESA, the CC was history. To be hidden away in a dusty folder until such a time it is resurrected.
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 17 Jul 2017 17:36 #3679

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Just took this from the Gov. website:

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Income based ESA is not time limited like Contributions based. As things are, my understanding is that unless the government have changed the goal posts, WRAG ESA claims are not be time limited, although ESA claimants CAN be sanctioned just like job seekers can be. I already knew that. But the link seems to suggest that WRAG claimants will be sanctioned for a year of they don`t find work? This doesn`t make any sense because WRAG claimants are not expected to look for work, only to prepare for it? Confusing....
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 17 Jul 2017 18:27 #3680

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I am hoping they got the information wrong...
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 17 Jul 2017 18:39 #3681

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So am I :dry: !! I`m thinking if the Tories did do what that article suggested, it would mean people in the WRAG being the same as JSA and having to job search and be under the same kosh. Although I can`t say I`ve never heard of JSA/UC claimants being sanctioned after a time limit if they didn`t find work. That`s surely no fault of theirs if employers don`t want to employ them? UC and historic benefits are there because they pay money `the law says we need to live on`, according to the government, even if that money is sanctionable, I only know of contribution based benefits being time limited.

Put it this way, if they did go head with this draconian venture, I think it would be the final nail in their coffin for good. I don`t think even they would be stupid enough to introduce such a measure. Although as Paul mentioned earlier, the US time limit unemployment benefit (something I know nothing about so can`t comment on) but it wouldn`t surprise me if our government done this. They are well knows already for tightening the screw on anyone not working, never mind those who can`t.
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 17 Jul 2017 20:19 #3682

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Well I put the information up as I want to know if it is true, I haven't heard of this before and think it would be disaster, especially if hardship is repayable, at the moment hoping it is misleading news although I do follow skwawkbox.org, I haven't seen these changes anywhere else and it would cause a massive growth in homelessness and death, (although think tories would happily see us all dead tbh). You cannot force a business to emply someone in a 2 year period so I don't see how it can be enforced. There is nothing in the world called full employment, it doesn't exist.


Anyway worth looking at the comments on the article as it is causing distress (well it did to me anyhow), I won't believe it until I see it in regs..
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 18 Jul 2017 00:42 #3683

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update
skwawkbox.org/2017/07/17/important-wragsanction-dont-panic-yet/
So the real situation may not be as bad as sources originally indicated – but it’s so unclear that the only thing everyone agreed on is that the rules are opaque and confusing.

So don’t panic yet. We’ll bring you a definitive answer as soon as one can be obtained.
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 18 Jul 2017 08:42 #3690

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I think what needs to be done here is a direct approach to the media who would be on this like a fly around a bucket of crap. They would find out what`s going on directly from the DWP where these scare stories are coming from and if they are going to be implemented. I can`t see a system that stops all payments to people who claim ESA because they are too ill to work or can`t find work even if they could do some work? I can just see the scenario where someone was threatened with eviction and having all their benefits stopped when they are crippled and can`t do anymore than they are asked to? There has to be that safety net for vulnerable people and even with the new changes to ESA WRAG where the extra £29 element has been taken away and is now paid in line with JSA rates, they are now saying (apparently) that WRAG ESA claimants will have this time limit introduced? Someone somewhere has obviously announced this because they have inside information, or it`s another Tory idiotic idea that will be shelved due to massive backlash. Lets hope it`s fake news.
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 18 Jul 2017 11:26 #3694

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I know the Murdoch press have recently been trying to spread Fake News on the owners of skwawkbox.org and they (Murdoch Press) failed and made themselves look worse by lying, so possibly this might be fake news to try and make skwawkbox.org less reliable? Just a theory though at the moment but it left a lot of people worried so not ok to publish and I don't want the Tories to get any ideas if this isn't true.

skwawkbox.org are to the left of politics and pro corbyn but not sure who is behind it but they usually have their finger on the pulse.
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 18 Jul 2017 13:28 #3698

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Unless it comes from the DWP themselves, I would be sceptical. It`s true that leaks can and do happen and U turns are made because the truth is out....but lets wait and see. If this was true, I would start selling everything and get ready to be evicted in a years time because there is no bloody way I would be forced to comply with such inhuman rules. I`d rather pitch a tent and take my chances. It`s bad enough they have people on ESA and UC shivering wrecks with worry,never mind hearing stories like this emerging. And no.....lets NOT give their `think tanks` any ideas.
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 20 Jul 2017 01:59 #3709

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It turned out that, for the moment it was a false alarm, yet... it is inevitable that a reactionary, quasi-fascist government, like the one we have at present, will inevitably tend to limit the time anyone can receive benefits.

So not limit at the moment but not much room for rejoicing either.

Earlier today the SKWAWKBOX published an article about the application of the Universal Credit (UC) ‘claimant commitment’ to disabled people. That article was based on information from a recent DWP employee and the details were confirmed before publication by a current DWP employee of 15 years experience. It indicated that disabled people not placed in the ‘Support Group’ by the DWP’s contracted medical assessors would have two years to find work and would then face sanction.

However, others have challenged whether the claimant commitment would be applied in this way, so the SKWAWKBOX has checked with other DWP veterans.

And has received mixed answers.
Saurce : SKWAWKBOX


To eliminate unemployment one needs only to eliminate the unemployed
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 20 Jul 2017 08:35 #3711

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As things stand, WRAG ESA claimants like myself can and do get sanctions, usually for failing to meet up with a work coach or lack of communication or just for not meeting their expectations. I`ve never had to face a sanction, but that doesn`t mean it will never happen. I`m always well aware of the things that can trip us up. The fact that someone on the `inside` has leaked this information is worrying and even though it seems lack-lustre in it`s truth, we can never be complacent. We know this government are hell bent on saving money and it`s the lower end of society they squeeze to get it.
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 21 Jul 2017 16:24 #3727

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If they brought in this new numb skull idea i think there would be hell to pay. :angry:

Can you imagine the rent arrears situation across the country.
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 21 Jul 2017 18:00 #3729

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And disabled and unwell claimants bombarding their GP surgeries with banners demanding they take action. It would be nothing more than a sentence on innocent citizens who have done nothing except not have a job. That is NOT a crime, yet it seems, headlines like this make it sound very similar. Punishment for failing to participate in keeping the economy afloat. Oh dear....the shame of it all. Imagine me not having a job because NOBODY WANTS TO EMPLOY SOMEONE OVER 50 AND WHO IS UNWELL. :angry:
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 22 Jul 2017 16:36 #3733

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Full update wasn't true, shouldn't have been widely published worrying me and many others

blueannoyed.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/the-2-yr-job-rule-for-disabled-on-universal-credit-is-not-true/
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Disabled claimants told: 2 yrs to get job or be sanctioned for a year 22 Jul 2017 18:07 #3734

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It`s a relief to know this although I can understand why people would be taken in by such announcements. Why wouldn`t we be if we don`t know the reality behind it? I would agree that anyone on ESA in the WRAG group or under UC - Limited Capability for Work- would have a Claimant Commitment, but this would (and should) be tailored to that individuals needs. Which I thin actually happens now. Any government who introduced such callous rules would be driven from office. Much as the Tories might like the idea, they seem happy enough with the status quo of sanctions and cuts as things stand and will keep sticking the knife in until they have everyone except the people with months to live signing on, regardless of their illness.
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