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TOPIC: UC compared with JSA—which is worse?

UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 07 Jan 2019 16:29 #12652

  • Tufty
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I’m on JSA and that it is pretty bad. So I’m wondering what is worse about UC—apart from the 5-week waiting period for payments to begin. That, of course, is bad—if you haven’t managed to save up some money in anticipation of a transfer from JSA to UC. But what other aspects of UC are worse than JSA?

Are you pestered more by JC staff than you are on JSA? Is it easier to get sanctioned on UC etc?
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 07 Jan 2019 17:06 #12653

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Tufty, I wouldn`t budge from your JSA claim until you are pushed. I`m not on UC myself yet but will be probably sometime this year. UC is a full digital service, so in some ways, you will still be looking online for jobs and using email etc....but with UC, you will not just have an online account, you will have an online Journal which has a `To Do` list. If you receive an email alert from UC or your work coach, it will tell you to `check your journal` to see what this action is about. It could just be a message from your work coach, or something to complete relating to your claim, or to apply for X amount of jobs your coach has found for you to apply for etc....

As far as I know, you may still have to meet your assigned work coach each fortnight unless they revue this to your circumstances. The main methods of communication will be through the online journal and the UC freephone helpline. The work search requirements are 35 a week, ( rather than the two or three actions you need to take on JSA) per week. Keeping a jobsearch diary too is required to show what you have done to find work, so time applied for job, job reference number, who you spoke to, if you sent your CV to X employers etc...

You don`t actually `sign on` anymore, so that element is now gone. But the meetings with your work coach are still the same.
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 07 Jan 2019 17:18 #12654

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Tufty, this is a very good site to read and take notes from. It walks you through the claim process for UC and lets you prepare things in advance.

www.choice-housing.org/media/3308/step-by-step-guide-to-making-and-maintaining-a-universal-credit-clain.pdf
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 07 Jan 2019 18:02 #12655

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Thanks, Comply.

Does that mean there are no ways to legally avoid having to have an online journal like there is in avoiding having to use the Find a Job site on JSA? Are there any Freedom of Information requests like the ones for Find a Job that say that having an online journal is not mandatory?
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 00:07 #12656

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Tufty,

You might like to listen to this prgramme tomorrow on Radio 4 at 12:18:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001xsv

"Call You and Yours: How is Universal Credit affecting you? Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

The rollout of the benefit is being scaled back after reports that families are expected to survive on small amounts of money, and many claimants are experiencing delays in getting their payments, leaving them in debt.

But supporters say Universal Credit simplifies a complicated benefits system, and some families are better off under the new benefit."
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 10:21 #12663

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Tufty, here is the whatdotheyknow link to the DWP FOI site where anyone can submit a question about UC and other related questions. It does have a search facility.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/dwp

As far as the UC journal goes, there is no requirement to use the journal, or supply a mobile phone number, OR use the Find a Job site. However, you need to familiarise yourself with the fact that when you make a claim for UC, the journal will automatically be set up as part of your UC claim where you will receive messages into it. When you supply UC with a valid email address, they send you a code number to the email address you supply and you must input this code into the UC claim within one hour or it expires.

Having the journal linked to your UC account is one thing, but I`m not sure how we can say we don`t want to use it if it`s THEIR way of sending us messages and actions. We could argue that we only want to be contacted via the email address we supply, but that would have to be agreed. Most of the time when DWP send an email or it comes from a job centre for example, it will be `no reply` email because DWP don`t have an email address to reply TO. They see this type of communication as unsecure. Which is probably why they want people to use the journal.

FAJ you don`t have to use either, but claimants are usually asked to create a FAJ account regardless as part of their commitments. Not agreeing to action all of this can be done, but would probably mean many head to head debates with a work coach a lot or standing your ground waving FOI`s in their faces!

Starting your research now is a good thing. It will prepare you for a claim in the future. Save some FOI`s that will protect you in any disagreements you may have and DON`T supply a mobile phone number (if you haven't already) because this can be another way of control over you. When you make a claim for UC and they ask for a mobile number, just put 11 zero`s into the box. Supply a home phone where possible but if you don`t have one, tell them. Get advice from your CAB office too before any claim is done because if you see anything that might cause you a problem, chances are you don`t have to agree to it. But because of the way the system is set up, most claimants will just agree to everything. So look carefully at each step and take notes. The link I provided earlier about making a UC claim goes through the process at each stage, so get a notepad and pen and take some notes as yo scroll down that page and get advice on anything your not sure about before you ever need to go near UC.
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 14:42 #12674

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Thanks Comply.
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 14:44 #12675

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Searcher wrote:
The rollout of the benefit is being scaled back

What do they mean by "scaled back"? Do they mean not to be rolled-out for everyone, or that the roll-out is being done slower?
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 14:52 #12677

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I doubt they are doing anything but. All that seems to be happening here is a halt to the 3 million people who would have been `invited to claim UC` this year to the Full service, but now they will `test & learn` on only 10,000 people. :S

So chances are if you are making any claim for benefits at all, you will still be in line to claim UC. If you are on JSA, you will stay there until told to make a UC claim. Same for ESA people unless they have a change of circumstance or lose an ESA appeal. Legacy benefits are just that now. Historic and not able to be claimed unless you are already on one.
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 15:29 #12678

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I think work coaches will now try and force a change of circumstance. As my jc is advising claimants to take up voluntary work at the jc, but I read in the change of circumstance jsa rules that volunteering IS a change of circumstance and you will most likely have to claim uc, but the wc are not telling anyone this.

Everything I've learned about uc I've learnt from this website, not once has anyone at the jc informed anyone about uc. All they tell you is everything is online now.
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 15:53 #12681

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Catwoman wrote: As my jc is advising claimants to take up voluntary work at the jc,

Do you mean volunteering IN the job centre Catwoman or just asking people to do voluntary work BY the jobcentre? Sorry if I miss-read what you meant! Funny, I remember when I claimed JSA around three years ago, my work coach at the time said that I could apply to do some work/training in a job centre but it would not be MY job centre, it would be in the other town or City. Just as well it didn`t come about as I didn`t fancy having to go there every day for five hours and unsure of what I would be asked to do. The thought scared me but at the same time, I was curious. I never did hear anything back so the references she made for me felon deaf ears. Either that, they wanted graduates or people who were (or have) worked in areas that involved similar working practices or had qualifications. I`ve only got an O level in art! :lol:
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 15:59 #12683

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So true catwoman the job centre don't tell you anything till the last minute and then they plunge you in to the shit I feel bad for anyone whose not informed and taking steps to prepare for the change or gets caught out by some silly rule you where unaware of that allows them to push you on to UC the system is so convoluted its impossible for average Joe to know where to step to avoid all the pitfalls.
Even as informed as we are here we are all still learning and find out new stuff all the time and its hard to retain all that info in your head we are all very lucky to have this site I'm sure for allot of us its helped us stay on top of things and stopped us becoming victims of the brutality of the system and stops us loosening our sanity....well some of you :evil:


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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 17:00 #12686

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TheFinnster wrote:
Even as informed as we are here we are all still learning and find out new stuff all the time and its hard to retain all that info in your head we are all very lucky to have this site I'm sure for allot of us its helped us stay on top of things and stopped us becoming victims of the brutality of the system and stops us loosening our sanity....well some of you :evil:
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Fully Agree Finnster, together we are strong and united win, Or something like that. OR
we could end up in the Shit like "I Blake".
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 17:00 #12687

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It will be very bad if people do have to volunteer at a jobcentre. These people will have to run the risk if being hated by claimants if seen front of house—or even when leaving and exiting the building. Which could be dangerous if a claimant was potentially violent.

Under those conditions maybe volunteers could dispute having to volunteer due to health and safety concerns. It's worth a try. Just say that you will see a solicitor about it, if pressed to volunteer.
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 17:00 #12688

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Tufty, here is a FOI relating to FAJ and explains a bit more about it.
welfarecentral.org/media/kunena/attachments/985/FoI2364responsefindajobsitecantbemandated.pdf

The argument here is, they CAN task you to OPEN and FAJ account but unlike the old UJM site, they cannot access it or bully you into using it. Your preference to use other (better) jobsites that suit you best should be accepted, but they must be jobsites that list the jobs you are looking for that best suit your needs/skills or you can provide evidence that they list far more jobs in your postal code than FAJ does. When you do a postcode search on a jobsite and then choose full time/part time/contract/temporary jobs, the number or jobs created on that page will appear at the top of the list. So compare other sites with FAJ and give some examples of these as proof.

It`s all about preparing these things well in advance of any job centre meeting and arming yourself with some tools of the trade. Meaning, know what your dealing with in each category and keep a folder with marked titles to reference things like job applications, contact numbers, lists of appropriate websites, printed FOI requests relating to having a mobile phone or being reimburses fares if attending your job centre on days when you wouldn`t normally be there etc....
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 18:23 #12699

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Cod.

The voluntary work for the jc was through the jc, but the other 'opportunities' they made it seem like it was through the jc, but it was not it was for a new charity shop and if you wanted to do it you had to contact the charity shop to set it up.
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 08 Jan 2019 23:03 #12700

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Sure! I'll volunteer, as long as they pay me the same hourly rate as joke shop staff.

At least i will be giving claimants correct and good advice to 'help' them. :)
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 09 Jan 2019 09:17 #12703

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archangel wrote:
It will be very bad if people do have to volunteer at a jobcentre. These people will have to run the risk if being hated by claimants if seen front of house—or even when leaving and exiting the building. Which could be dangerous if a claimant was potentially violent.

Under those conditions maybe volunteers could dispute having to volunteer due to health and safety concerns. It's worth a try. Just say that you will see a solicitor about it, if pressed to volunteer.

I did volunteer at the JC. I requested it myself, as I had previous experience in the welfare to work sector. They only let me volunteer for a week. I asked to carry on but they wouldn't let me. They also gave me a nice letter with references, that I never used. The other claimants were quite nice to me, too.

The work coache(s) are pushing me to apply to become a work coach myself, but I don't want to. One volunteered to give me the answers for the test, but I declined. I don't want to be a roach. But I'd like to be a benefit advisor, or something like that. I surely know the law more than the roaches. That's why they don't f**k with me.
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 09 Jan 2019 15:02 #12713

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Back in my "Job-search" Days I took on every course offered more as something to do, as I was board out of my Mind.
3 or 4th Course was 6 Months in Advanced Construction, 9 to 4, 5 days a week and got paid Extra £10 a week for attending,
There was a lot of competition to get a place. + Got paid Bus Fares. After course ended got a full time Job. :)
It is better to take Decent opportunitys when they come along, Sitting playing on your X-Box all day will never get you a Job.
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UC compared with JSA—which is worse? 09 Jan 2019 16:43 #12718

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miguel1975 wrote:
I did volunteer at the JC. I requested it myself, as I had previous experience in the welfare to work sector. They only let me volunteer for a week. I asked to carry on but they wouldn't let me. They also gave me a nice letter with references, that I never used. The other claimants were quite nice to me, too.

The work coache(s) are pushing me to apply to become a work coach myself, but I don't want to. One volunteered to give me the answers for the test, but I declined. I don't want to be a roach. But I'd like to be a benefit advisor, or something like that. I surely know the law more than the roaches. That's why they don't f**k with me.

No disrespect to you Miguel, but I personally wouldn’t volunteer at a jobcentre for moral reasons, as I don’t want to do their dirty work for them. To do so would make me complicit in their cruelty.

Sorry for sounding sanctimonious, but I can’t find another way to say it.
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