­
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Any one know any more on this.

Any one know any more on this. 30 Aug 2017 15:17 #4053

  • nemesis 3
  • nemesis 3's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Thank you received: 47
This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

I had this today off my housing provider and no nothing about it .
Is it right that if you are claiming UC now you will have to make a new claim online and have an account ? Looks like it says so on this .
How does the law stand if we have to do this ? I am not happy they can email and text me telling me what to do .
Can they email or text you to go on some course and will it be mandatory .
can they tell you to apply for this and that and if you dont do you get the sanction .
When they say "re-claim" even tho your already claiming do you have to make a complete re-claim like providing rent statements, ,,bank accounts, proof of this and that etc.
Has anyone done this yet ?
What if you ait got internet or a phone.
Surly they know how much information by law we have to provide and thats it but this going to far .
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die

Any one know any more on this. 30 Aug 2017 15:58 #4054

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 789
  • Thank you received: 647
It seems to me that once we have an online Universal Credit account, it`s a conditionally controlled system where (as the leaflet above seems to say) your coach can alert you to action something via this Government account like updating your CV or attending something or anything they see fit. I`m not (yet) transferred to Universal Credit, but already I read too many stories about it being an all-in one system. The 35 hour job search being included for anyone not having a disability or another health problem that limits what they can do.

I`m pretty sure claiming UC is all done online and that alone could cause problems if your half way through the registration and it asks for certain documents or details about something you don`t have to hand. But (I think) once you are claiming UC, you never leave, a bit like the Hotel California.....it`s a system that keeps you attached to it whether in or out of work unless the wages you earn are above the upper limit? I will let those already on UC answer that one. It`s a learning curve for me too so I`m all ears. It is worrying though reading that a work coach can just log into your UC account and add in things you may not want to agree to.

I have a Universal Job match account (dormant at the moment as I`m on ESA) and that is said to be a Government Gateway account, but whether this is classed as a gateway of linking a UC account to it, I`m not sure. But with UJM, you can choose to allow access to it or not with the `tick boxes`. Hopefully some members already on the full service can shine some light on this nemesis.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: nemesis 3

Any one know any more on this. 30 Aug 2017 16:09 #4055

  • nemesis 3
  • nemesis 3's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Thank you received: 47
Thanks Comply always rely on you to know something .
Someone will know how data protection helps us on this.
Give me hotel California any day !
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die

Any one know any more on this. 30 Aug 2017 16:24 #4056

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 789
  • Thank you received: 647
Given I`m not on UC yet, I have been reading up on it and have learned that (as above) there are different elements to it regarding which group we are placed in. Right now, I would be in the LCW (limited Capability for Work` group rather than the WRAG group as it`s known as at the moment. I would be paid monthly and have the LCW element added to the Basic payment. Yet the sums never seem to add up when compared to the amounts paid out now. But perhaps that`s something to do with `calendar months` rather than fortnightly payments.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jobber, Sandella, nemesis 3

Any one know any more on this. 07 Sep 2017 15:27 #4131

  • jobber
  • jobber's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 191
  • Thank you received: 312
I believe i did read somewhere that they can mandate stuff onto to us to do courses or whatever, can be delivered by electronic needs if need be;on what circumstances they will apply that mentality to is anyone's guess.

One thing i can say 100% correct is when applying for UC its easier to apply for a bank loan as they want to know absolutely EVERYTHING this coincides with data matching by councils ticking all the boxes as they are suppose to match up.But as we all know,they dont when they do if you get my sarcasm,just another way of delaying payments setting the vulnerable up to fall :angry: .


Can they email or text you to go on some course and will it be mandatory .YESThis is a very grey area and seek advice from CAB,if i can find the exact law passage will report back.

can they tell you to apply for this and that and if you dont do you get the sanction .YES, if in their view it was a reasonable request you have to prove otherwise and as long as you can, all should be ok but while the crap heads decide you are left penniless,and in some cases for 3-6 months its a draconian system of which the TORYS love.

The elements of UC only work if your in a low paid job,lose your job and return to UC then the whole 6-7 week waiting process starts all over again.

They've designed the elements to work only for very low paid jobs as they knew there was going to be an abundance of them;and OH how right they were.







The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die, nemesis 3

Any one know any more on this. 07 Sep 2017 16:04 #4132

  • nemesis 3
  • nemesis 3's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Thank you received: 47
Well thanks jobber for that.
I was surprised I never got more information off people who visit this site. Where has every one gone I ask ? Have they all got jobs ? Have they been starved to death ? Or has the nasty tory party got a stealth army operating and going round taking the high profile fire brands out, erm .......
I showed this pamphlet to my advisor last Thursday and she said "oh we havnt started this yet and it will be 2-3months so how did your housing provider get the information"
I didnt answer . I was thinking.
And what I thought was these twats arnt goin to tell us until the last minute , surprize attack .
She looked pissed off when I showed her.
Hope you can find out more jobber and post it as will I.
One thing that I dont understand tho is, you dont have to give them an email or phone num and most people have not got either anyway so they are never goin to get these communications froM UC .
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die, jobber

Any one know any more on this. 07 Sep 2017 16:15 #4133

  • jobber
  • jobber's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 191
  • Thank you received: 312


Hi Nemesis 3,

You can insist on all contact be done by post but all UC appointments in my area are made on the day you attend their offices,the problem with asking to communicate by post is there have been cases where the post never arrives and BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its sanction time,you turn up at your next appointment and they say date was changed letter was sent out to you,so electronic communication does create a solid paper trail in some circumstances.

If they ever do try the letter was sent out trick and you mysteriously didn't get it then put in SAR "Subject access request ico.org.uk/media/for-the-public/documents/1253/how_to_make_a_request.doc " causes a ton of paper work by law of which they have to supply which would include all letters sent out. :)

To shut them up create an email address soley for communication with jc+ dwp only and only use that to apply for jobs that they!! think you should apply for; use another for the ones you know it makes sense to apply for :) .

I give them a very difficult time when i can but there is a point where you have to comply,this whole system bloody stinks to hell and created by some bunch of toffs sitting in a bath tub making up brain dead go nowhere ideas etc imo.

The ICO office is the best official place to contact regards to data protection but from what ive read even that lot drag their feet when gov are involved.
As you know they are looking for total control of the unemployed and by having a phone number and email address enables them to bombard people with endless job applications of which they probably haven't got 1 jot of interest in taking on.By refusing not to give a mobile phone number or a valid email address i feel will hold up someones claim.From what i can remember i think its actually a condition of making a UC claim when applying online,once all has been approved they then text details of your 1st UC appointment to your mobile and the appointment is usually withing a few day of making claim online,funny how they get the ball rolling that quick and then tales em 6 weeks to sort out any benefit payment that may be due :angry: .


DWP Central Freedom of Information Team
Annex A

e-mail: . gov.uk Our Ref: VTR4697 DATE: 1 December 2015 Annex A Dear Ms, Thank you for your Freedom of Information request of 2015. You asked: The online application form for Universal Credit requires a mobile phone number in order to proceed. As you are probably are aware, not every person has a mobile phone, nor is it a legal requirement for a person to own a mobile phone. Additionally, many disabled people are incapable of using a mobile phone due to hearing and speech problems, or physical disablement. Therefore, can you please answer the following; 1) Is ownership of a mobile phone a requirement to claim Universal Credit? 2) Can an application for Universal Credit be processed without a mobile phone number? 3) What is the departments policy on Universal Credit claimants who do not own a mobile phone? 4) Can a claimant be mandated to purchase and use a mobile phone on the threat of being sanctioned? 4) Has the department made any provisions or undertaken any research for Universal Credit claimants who are unable to use a mobile phone due to disability? 1. [u][b] I can confirm there is no legal or policy requirement for a claimant to have a mobile phone[/b][/u] in order to make a claim to Universal Credit. 2. When making a Universal Credit claim claimants are asked to provide their home address plus are asked to provide an email address (if they have one) plus a mobile number (if they have one) and a landline number (if they have one). [b][u]However if they do not provide email or phone details this does not prevent them from continuing with their claim to Universal Credit. [/u][/b] [color=#0000ff]From the horses mouth so to speak, I was wrong. Just make sure this is only applicable if someone is disabled . [/color] :) 3. The Department does not have a policy on a claimant owning a mobile phone. The reason they are asked to provide a phone number is because it provides a quicker method of contacting the claimant if there are any queries about their new claim. In addition, most people have requirements in their claimant commitment to look for work and be available for appointments with their work coach or for interviews and therefore it is easier to make those arrangements if we are able to contact them quickly. 4. No a claimant can not be mandated to purchase and use a mobile phone on the threat of being sanctioned. 4) DWP has a legal duty under the Equality Act to make reasonable adjustments in all the following circumstances: • Where a disabled person is at a substantial disadvantage in relation to a relevant matter in comparison with a non-disabled person we must remove or alter what we do to avoid the disadvantage. This could be a certain practice or physical feature. • Where, but for the provision of an auxiliary (supporting) aid, a disabled person would be put at a substantial disadvantage in relation to a relevant matter in comparison with a non-disabled person we take reasonable steps to provide the auxiliary aid or service. • Where the adjustment relates to the provision of information, .i.e. letters and correspondence, then this should be provided in an accessible format. For example this could be large print, braille, audio. It could also include the contents being read to the customer by a friend, representative or a member of staff. If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the reference number above. Yours sincerely, DWP Strategy FoI Team jobber[email address].
gov.uk

Our Ref: VTR4697


DATE: 1 December 2015
Annex A


Dear Ms,

Thank you for your Freedom of Information request of 2015. You asked:

The online application form for Universal Credit requires a mobile phone number in order to
proceed. As you are probably are aware, not every person has a mobile phone, nor is it a legal
requirement for a person to own a mobile phone. Additionally, many disabled people are
incapable of using a mobile phone due to hearing and speech problems, or physical
disablement.

Therefore, can you please answer the following;

1) Is ownership of a mobile phone a requirement to claim Universal Credit?
2) Can an application for Universal Credit be processed without a mobile phone number?
3) What is the departments policy on Universal Credit claimants who do not own a mobile
phone?
4) Can a claimant be mandated to purchase and use a mobile phone on the threat of being
sanctioned?
4) Has the department made any provisions or undertaken any research for Universal Credit
claimants who are unable to use a mobile phone due to disability?

1. I can confirm there is no legal or policy requirement for a claimant to have a mobile
phone
in order to make a claim to Universal Credit.

2. When making a Universal Credit claim claimants are asked to provide their home
address plus are asked to provide an email address (if they have one) plus a mobile
number (if they have one) and a landline number (if they have one). However if they do
not provide email or phone details this does not prevent them from continuing with their
claim to Universal Credit.


From the horses mouth so to speak, I was wrong.

Just make sure this is only applicable if someone is disabled .

:)


3. The Department does not have a policy on a claimant owning a mobile phone. The
reason they are asked to provide a phone number is because it provides a quicker
method of contacting the claimant if there are any queries about their new claim. In
addition, most people have requirements in their claimant commitment to look for work
and be available for appointments with their work coach or for interviews and therefore it
is easier to make those arrangements if we are able to contact them quickly.

4. No a claimant can not be mandated to purchase and use a mobile phone on the threat
of being sanctioned.

4) DWP has a legal duty under the Equality Act to make reasonable adjustments in all the
following circumstances:

Where a disabled person is at a substantial disadvantage in relation to a relevant
matter in comparison with a non-disabled person we must remove or alter what we do to
avoid the disadvantage. This could be a certain practice or physical feature.

Where, but for the provision of an auxiliary (supporting) aid, a disabled person
would be put at a substantial disadvantage in relation to a relevant matter in comparison
with a non-disabled person we take reasonable steps to provide the auxiliary aid or service.

Where the adjustment relates to the provision of information, .i.e. letters and
correspondence, then this should be provided in an accessible format. For example this
could be large print, braille, audio. It could also include the contents being read to the
customer by a friend, representative or a member of staff.

If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the reference number
above.
Yours sincerely,


DWP Strategy FoI Team



jobber
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: nemesis 3, Carlos Marighella

Any one know any more on this. 07 Sep 2017 16:46 #4135

  • nemesis 3
  • nemesis 3's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Thank you received: 47
Well thanks again jobber will print that off.
Its all a bloody headache at the end of the day.
You could do 35 hours a week just challenging the decisions they make against you.
Dont know how the vulnerable cope at all.
Disgusting .
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jobber

Any one know any more on this. 07 Sep 2017 17:50 #4136

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 789
  • Thank you received: 647
In their own words:

This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.


That`s the reason I never disclosed that I have a mobile phone. I only ever give them my name, home address, home phone number and an email address, which as jobber said, is used solely for DWP/Job Centre contact and online purchases etc. I use my Hotmail account as my private account.

I couldn`t live with turning my phone on every day and see six text messages from JCP about contacting them or information about looking up jobs on X sites. The expectation would kill me. I`m hoping I am migrated to UC and never have to do a new claim for it because as everyone says, it can be a nightmare.

nemesis - I`m wondering too where the old members have gone? I know quite a few re-joined, but replies can be few and it`s good to share experiences or just join in the conversation if it can be useful.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jobber, nemesis 3, Carlos Marighella

Any one know any more on this. 07 Sep 2017 19:13 #4137

  • nemesis 3
  • nemesis 3's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Thank you received: 47
Hi comply you're still with us which is great.
There was a great woman who really knew it all but she died I think , she had a name with the initials FC,. she was good.

Your comment comply "I couldn`t live with turning my phone on every day and see six text messages from JCP about contacting them or information about looking up jobs on X sites. The expectation would kill me."

Thats my point too comply.
Like jobber says no one really knows yet whats going to happen. We all know what they will do if you dont do the above in your comment . It will hold your benefit up for weeks and sanction you left right and center unless you "comply or die" sorry just had to get that in.
Ah well.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die, Carlos Marighella

Any one know any more on this. 08 Sep 2017 08:12 #4138

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 789
  • Thank you received: 647
It`s all give and take with this nemesis. As you rightly said, complying with their demands to a degree is a must if we want to avoid confrontations or suspicion that we know our rights. Ducking and diving is the key. Do what you feel is necessary, but always question everything regardless.

I`m not sure about what happened to FV (Flying Visitor) from the UM forum but he/she was well last I heard. There was a report of a member called Lazy Cow passing away but I didn`t know them as I was only a passing visitor to the site at that time and not a member. FV is sorely missed though, I agree.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: nemesis 3, Carlos Marighella

Any one know any more on this. 08 Sep 2017 11:45 #4144

  • nemesis 3
  • nemesis 3's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Thank you received: 47
Yeah it was lazy cow comply thanks. She was good.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jobber

Any one know any more on this. 10 Sep 2017 10:05 #4163

  • jobber
  • jobber's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 191
  • Thank you received: 312
Yes where have all the old faces got to.

I remember Tarquin :)
Have they been locked up in some class room for WP etc.

If i was on social media i would put a lot of links to this site but are going to do some stuff over the next few days through other media .

People will only join if their pissed off enough by this do as we say system :pinch: :pinch: :pinch: .
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Paul-UB40, comply or die, nemesis 3

Any one know any more on this. 10 Sep 2017 13:28 #4165

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 789
  • Thank you received: 647
I think quite a few familiar members did re-join but haven`t been as active for some reason. I suppose it all comes down to circumstances and how much people want to contribute as time seems very short these days when life gets in the way. With the 35 hour joke search, I can`t imagine anyone having the physical and mental energy to also log into a forum every day. It`s all very draining.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: nemesis 3

Any one know any more on this. 10 Sep 2017 14:11 #4167

  • jobber
  • jobber's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 191
  • Thank you received: 312
I always try and make time to visit the forum,it's the other i have a problem with ;) :)
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Paul-UB40, comply or die, nemesis 3

Any one know any more on this. 10 Sep 2017 14:35 #4168

  • comply or die
  • comply or die's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 789
  • Thank you received: 647
Same here jobber. I like to pass on information if I can help someone who is in that dark realm of fate and doesn`t know the answer. We all have different experiences and can`t always help directly like CAB, but we can give advice on form filling, links and basically just being there for others.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Paul-UB40, nemesis 3

Any one know any more on this. 10 Sep 2017 14:36 #4169

  • Paul-UB40
  • Paul-UB40's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 964
  • Thank you received: 476
comply or die wrote:
I think quite a few familiar members did re-join but haven`t been as active for some reason. I suppose it all comes down to circumstances and how much people want to contribute as time seems very short these days when life gets in the way. With the 35 hour joke search, I can`t imagine anyone having the physical and mental energy to also log into a forum every day. It`s all very draining.

Hi All
I try and log in most days, just to see whats happening. B)
Regards past members:
When UM closed down last March most members registered onto here, but sadly don't post as much as I would like.
FV [ Flying Visitor ] has retired was briefly on Benefits advice forum.
Lazy Cow was from central Southern England, a former Solicitor sadly passed away January/February 2016.
As to where everyone else is?
Hope this helps.
Been a Few Places; Done a Few Things
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: comply or die, Catwoman, nemesis 3

Any one know any more on this. 11 Sep 2017 11:52 #4173

  • KatiLB
  • KatiLB's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Thank you received: 44
I'm still around ... I pop on most days, but hardly ever have something beneficial to say :S
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Paul-UB40, comply or die, Catwoman, nemesis 3
­