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TOPIC: should i go on sick

should i go on sick 06 Nov 2018 14:19 #10817

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on saturday i colapsed out side the supermarket,blood clot from my leg to my lungs caused this,i smashed my eye socket and cheekbone. face is a mess. just got home from the hospital today im 61 but next thursday the 15th when im due my next group sign on.
they are going to refer me for a job placement, what do i do.
do i go on sick.then be forced on universal credit and have to wait 5 weeks with no money. i have to go back for surgery on my cheekbone friday, should i get a sick note and take it with me on the 15th to the joke centre.
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should i go on sick 06 Nov 2018 14:56 #10818

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London, if this was me, I would see my GP and ask Him/her to write me a fit note covering me for a few months (or at least one month) due to your current circumstances and that you cannot attend this next `group` sign on. Your GP should explain on the fit note that you are not able to attend this and would not be capable of ANY work for X amount of days/weeks/months....whichever they see appropriate. Especially as they plan to send you on some goose chase when you have surgery planned. Your GP should have no hesitation here.

If you are on JSA, handing in a fit note should not mean any chance of circumstance because on JSA, the rules for being sick are different from UC. You should (if memory serves me well) be able to claim TWO separate 14 days sickness and these can be concurrent (back to back) so 28 days before you require any fit notes, but given your current acute situation, I would first of all contact your normal work coach or someone either at your job centre for information on this and then either take the two weeks sickness entitlement without a fit note, or if the person on the phone tells you that you need a fit note, then you see your GP and supply one.

You are NOT making a claim for ESA, you are merely practicing your right to the 14 day absence due to illness/hospitalisation/recovery etc....doing so should not mean you are put onto Universal Credit or asked to claim it. Many people are reporting that their job centres are asking people to switch to UC, but their circumstances have never changed, so it`s all smoke & mirrors.

JSA rules still apply to you as regards taking sick days, so these are the JSA regulations you apply. Sorry to hear you took a nasty fall, hope your okay and we are here to advise you.
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should i go on sick 06 Nov 2018 14:58 #10819

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Hope your feeling a bit better London. Give yourself a couple of weeks grace if possible by getting a fit note they call them now from docs. Think you get up to 4 weeks a yr b4 having to change to esa/uc. As for this job placement do you have to do it as I was tricked into placement a couple of yrs back as at the time it wernt mandatory so you need to find out if this placement is mandatory or not. What i do no was once i was signed up had i been ill id of been sanctioned.
Flip side is i quite enjoyed it and its good for the soul to feel not totally useless. All be it i was only tagging clothes and sorting donations in a charity shop. I stayed on for a while after and only stopped when someone took away a comfy chair i was using.
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should i go on sick 06 Nov 2018 15:19 #10820

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www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/351676/response/860214/attach/html/4/JSA%20Sickness%20Guidance.pdf.html

My mistake london123. The short periods of sickness under JSA rules are 14 days MAX. I have linked to the following regarding JSA. I would still see your GP about the fit note regardless of what this links states because it does say that even though you can be `sick` for 14 days, a claimant still has to be available AND seeking work, so to kill this notion dead, the fit note will be required.

Quote from the link:

What is a short period of sickness?
Jobseekers can have two short periods of sickness without it affecting their
JSA. Each short period of sickness must not exceed 14 days.
During this time they will be treated as capable of work, available for work
and actively seeking employment. This is called a short period of sickness.
Two short periods of sickness can be declared without entitlement to JSA
being affected during any Jobseeking Period (JSP) or within each successive
12 month period if the JSP lasts for longer than 12 months. Each short period
of sickness must not exceed 14 days. It is the first day of sickness which will
determine in which JSP the period falls.
Note: A temporary or short period of sickness (SPS) can be converted to an
Extended Period of Sickness because the sickness ends up lasting longer
than two weeks. In these cases, the original SPS should be disregarded from
the maximum number SPS spells JSA claimants are permitted to have in a 12
month job seeking period.
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should i go on sick 06 Nov 2018 16:27 #10826

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Ruddy hell london123, so sorry to read this, you are surely in some pain although I guess used to that. I dread being placed in such a dilemma and am sure the govt have deliberately set things up this way. Let's face it, a serious accident/illness lasts more than a couple of weeks and as we get older that length increases with seemingly no consideration given from on high to this difference hence whack retirement age up another few years. But as I well know from personal experience the point of going on the sick doesn't actually get you that straight away, a medical follows which most of us score 0 points on and are either sent straight back to work (seeking it) or can appeal taking up several months. I also cannot get this 5 weeks wait out of my mind.

I am just wondering what they would expect of you in this job placement in your condition. Me being the boss I would just take one look at you and send you home then get on the phone to joke central and demand why they cannot send somebody fit and able instead. Of course we here know that neither party you have to deal with are likely to be sane people. There is a strong likelihood that it isn't even mandatory and that when you get there might not even be any actual work to do and instead be sat behind an old computer with some twerp talking utter crap on commission for wasting tax payers money. But as TW35 points out this mandatory or not should be the next thing to find out. For these reasons I would not worry too much about actually attending even though I am sure getting there will be a pain in the jacksy itself and any expenses should be claimed.

Having said all that, I aren't sure there would be many doctors wanting you to take the risk in your condition and agree this 14 day sickness allowance should be considered.

I would say get well soon but having long term issues myself it is a strange position to be in as though we cannot be ill because we already are and why you shouldn't be on JSA in the first place although I too would prefer that to UC.
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should i go on sick 06 Nov 2018 16:43 #10828

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Verc wrote: Let's face it, a serious accident/illness lasts more than a couple of weeks and as we get older that length increases with seemingly no consideration given from on high to this difference hence whack retirement age up another few years.

Agree Verc and that`s why anyone already on ESA should fight tooth and nail to keep it because if your health has (a) stayed the same, they (decision maker) would need to justify removing your ESA award and on what basis and (b) if your health has deteriorated and you have medical evidence of this for example (more medical interventions, medications being changed to a higher dose etc...) then you should be in the Support group of ESA (or LCWRA Limited Capability for Work Related Activity) under UC rules.

It`s becoming a struggle for anyone to get or keep their ESA claim, but unless we are willing to take them on and fight, the alternative is full on conditionality unless they take into account our `disability` or `health problems` which many work coaches don`t even though the records show this.

Anyone NOT claiming ESA but has poor health should be applying it to their agreement and making sure it`s reasonable to them.
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should i go on sick 06 Nov 2018 17:47 #10833

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ill take a fit note with me on the group sign on meeting ,and have asked the speacialist at the hospital to write me a letter explaining what happened to me.
and then ill ask an adviser at joke center what they recomend i should do, dont want to be skint over xmas.
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should i go on sick 06 Nov 2018 18:01 #10835

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london, remember too that it`s not what`s wrong with you, it`s how it stops you from doing things. So the fit note you apply should have words to that effect. Not just say `my patient should be excused from all work for X days/weeks`. That alone would probably BE enough, but anything your GP or consultant can apply regarding your SAFETY, AND RELIABILITY due to X is better. Especially if they say you would be at RISK of another collapse or UNRELIABLE if asked to attend anything.

I`m sure you will be fine with this but stay focussed.
You wrote: and then ill ask an adviser at joke center what they recomend i should do,

The advisor (work coach) at the job centre should apply your fit note and tell you that you do not need to attend or look for work. But if they do start mentioning the EPS (extended period of sickness) this is the 13 week assessment phase for ESA when you hand in fit notes before being sent an ESA50 form, you say you will cross that bridge if your illness gets that far. In the meantime, you are not able to participate in ANY work or sessions.
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should i go on sick 09 Nov 2018 23:04 #10926

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Hi London123,

Hope you are starting to feel a little better and even if your not! Make sure you play an Oscar on the back of your situation as it sounds to me you've gone through hell there. Lets not disappoint the joke shop. :whistle: :) :evil:

I feel your Dr will sign you off for at least 3 months if you make it politely clear to them and maybe add a bit on for good measure.

If Dr wont do this, just keep go asking for repeat fit notes.Like your currently unfit for "certain types of work."Be sure to choose these types of work carefully, and should put a stop to joke shops attempt to navigate you for any 'quality minimum wage baggage handling jobs' for example.

Keep us posted.
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should i go on sick 10 Nov 2018 10:23 #10938

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jobber wrote:
Hi London123,

Hope you are starting to feel a little better and even if your not! Make sure you play an Oscar on the back of your situation as it sounds to me you've gone through hell there. Lets not disappoint the joke shop. :whistle: :) :evil:

I feel your Dr will sign you off for at least 3 months if you make it politely clear to them and maybe add a bit on for good measure.

If Dr wont do this, just keep go asking for repeat fit notes.Like your currently unfit for "certain types of work."Be sure to choose these types of work carefully, and should put a stop to joke shops attempt to navigate you for any 'quality minimum wage baggage handling jobs' for example.

Keep us posted.
hi,
the hospital appointment on fri morning, dont need surgery on my face as the bones have not moved,so thats good. taken off the daily blood thinning injections in my stomach. and have started a course of blood thining tablets, i still have two blood clots in my lungs, so i am always short of breath,if i walk to the shop ect, but the doctor only gave me a fit note for two weeks. so when i evetually go to sign on and explain whats happened there will be only a week left on the fit note, so im a bit confused as what to do,
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should i go on sick 10 Nov 2018 10:42 #10940

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Have another look on the descriptors for ESA/UC London as being out of breath/fatigued when waking depending on how far you may score points. Find out more how these clots affects people as you may have to tell a porkie or 2 to get ESA/UC. Dont feel guilty if you go down that route we all no to get ESA/UC its a test not fit for purpose .
If you end up on JSA you will have to just play the game of applying for jobs we no you wont get.
But only apply for ones you have half a chance of being able to do. Avoid agencies as those clowns will drag you in for a interview to gather data. But genuine companies you may get a nice reply saying unfortuantly you have not been selected for interview. Always state about your disability especially if you dont want the ball ache of a interview.
As for the fit note has the doc wrote on it so the job centre can update their system ?.
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should i go on sick 10 Nov 2018 11:53 #10945

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london123 wrote: i still have two blood clots in my lungs, so i am always short of breath,if i walk to the shop ect, but the doctor only gave me a fit note for two weeks. so when i evetually go to sign on and explain whats happened there will be only a week left on the fit note, so im a bit confused as what to do,

First of all, go to your Friday hospital appointment and discuss things with whoever you see there. Clots in the lings are not something to be taken lightly, even if your on blood thinning drugs. Are they warfarin based? If they are, these are usually long term medications and require monthly blood testing to determine the dosage you should be on. I was a medical receptionist in my past so know some of the drug terminology.

Secondly, I would certainly take TW35`s advice london123 and look at either the ESA regulations covering mobility (fatigue and breathlessness and pain when performing ANY of the descriptors SAFELY, RELIABLY and/or REPEATEDLY) and think about the actions and tasks you do daily and how these affects you physically.

There is also PIP which is NOT means tested, so you can be IN work or OUT of work and qualify for PIP. This is something you could discuss with your GP/Consultants too and suggest to them that you feel you cannot cope with the activities your expected to meet when signing on. You could argue that the activities are unreasonable or placing untenable demands upon you.

London 13 wrote: so im a bit confused as what to do,

If you need advice, make an appointment to speak to someone at your local CAB office or welfare advice if you have any locally. Sometimes councils have these people who will advise on welfare and disability issues, so don`t be afraid to give them a wee call.

Edited to add this: Here is the page which explains the ESA points and descriptors londom123. Scroll down the page and look at Each descriptor and place yourself into the categories you think you would meet the criteria for. Discuss these with your GP or other healthcare people if you really feel you could score points on them. You need 15 points to be awarded a claim for ESA either on ONE category, or a by adding more than one category together. Hope this helps. Just NEVER fill out an ESA50 on your own if you have never done it before. And even if you have and failed the test, don`t allow that to cloud your judgement. You can make a NEW claim for ESA six months after any previous attempt if you have a NEW health problem, or a worsening of an EXISYING problem and can provide medical evidence of that.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/535942/esa214-july-2016.pdf
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should i go on sick 10 Nov 2018 14:26 #10950

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London go see your Dr and tell them you still dont feel right since your recent experience.

You dont feel up to taking on any kind of work at the moment.They may suggest that you only are capable of very light weight work for example.

If however you really do feel genuinely bad, then as i said before do an Oscar performance to ensure your Dr gets the full picture so to speak.

Thinking of ways to keep you out of their grips at joke club for longer.

"being out of breath/fatigued when waking " This line alone should warrant a fit note i would have thought taking your age into consideration as well.If you feel you have a TORY jobsworth GP as some can be.Go see see another for this particular situation.The planks at esa centre etc will deem you fit for work if you said you had a broken back.So need to be mindful of how they think.And use qualified NHS assessment letters/ X-rays to batter their arguments and any loony suggestions they may have waiting for you.
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should i go on sick 10 Nov 2018 16:19 #10958

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Also, remember it`s not your health problem they look at, it`s how that health problem prevents you from working or managing tasks. I mention this because you could have had a heart attack and they wouldn`t look at that as being serious unless the effects of it changed what you could effectively do on a daily basis. So be mindful of this whether you decide to claim ESA or PIP, or whether you need your Jobseekers Agreement or Claimant Commitment changed to reflect your current situation. This snippet is just an example of being able to tailor your requirements if you have a disability or health problems:

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should i go on sick 11 Nov 2018 06:53 #10963

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"they wouldn`t look at that as being serious unless the effects of it changed what you could effectively do on a daily basis."
As Comply say's above.

its that mentality that needs to be investigated by government and bloody quick.As anyone with a brain the size of a fly can surely see their going to score 100%" heart attack"= ZERO capacity for work. Any NHS Qualified GP will agree. There are only certain dead heads who invent this tick box culture who dont. :whistle: :evil: And they should be held to account.




JOBBER: Dr ive just come out of hospital after a 2 week stay for major heart attack."
DR: lets see Mr Jobber. Oh yes, your all good now.You can start work in warehouse city tomorrow.
JOBBER: Who do you work for doc?
DR: ESA Assessment panel :whistle: :lol: :silly: :evil:


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should i go on sick 11 Nov 2018 09:34 #10967

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That`s exactly how it work jobber although it does depend on individual circumstances and the severity of your problem. But your example shows the mentality we have to deal with now. Which is why we need to get across to these jobsworths why we CANNOT work, making sure we use the terminology of safely, repeatedly and reliably as well as cross referencing what we suffer from with the ESA/PIP descriptors.
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